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Lords and Heros
Supreme Sorcerous Lv 4
Ring of hoteck
Talismen of presivation
Tome of Furion
Sean Dragon Cloak
Sword Of battle
0+ armour save? correct me if i'm wrong
Banner of Murder
16 Cross-bow Men
16 Cross-bow Men
5 Dark riders
Additional Hand weapon
Dance of Doom
Cry of War
Additional heand weapon
Rune of Khaine
Touch of Death
Cry of war
5 Cold one Knights
5 Cold one Knights
20 Black Guard
2 Cold One Chariots
2 Reaper Bolt throwers
2 War Hydra
This is what i could come up with at this points level Let me know what you think and any improvements that need to be made
I am not a dark elf player but I am a high elf player and my most common opponent is dark elves. I will offer what advice I have but feel free to disregard it if you want.
Is Ring of Hotek on your Supreme Sorceress right, I believe ring of hotek affects your casting so your SS will be miscasting on doubles which can't be a good thing. I would put the ring of Hotek on your master and run him round with to get up close and personal with your opponents archmage, which will ruin his day rather badly. I would also give your master a great weapon instead of sword of battle, makes it a 1+ save but he should be alright really and 3 attacks at S6 is better than 4 at S4. Make him a BSB with the spare points as well.
The level 2 has 2 arcane items which is no longer allowed under the new rules even though one is a dispel scroll. You need to pick a lore for both your mages as well.
The core is cool, all those RxB's will ruin a HE players day.
I can't remember what dread banner does (cause fear?) but I would consider banner of hag graef on the Black guard, this will negate any rerolls the HE may get against you, but may not be necessary with your I6.
I wouldn't bother with the razor standard against HE on your Cold Ones, they have only got heavy armour so will be saving on 6's anyway. It may help against any cavalry but they don't come up that often in HE lists anymore, and in my experience your S4 (rider and mount) will beat the DP 1 extra attack at S3 in the long run, although the charger should win.
Aside from the pendant of Khaleth your army has everything that HE struggle with, High Initiative on your specials so no re-rolls for him/her andlots of RxB's, assassins that mean he can't be confident of the lack of killing power in your infantry units. With Ring of Hotek where it is though your mage will self destruct herself and take magic out of the game and he will overwhelm you with his magic and there won't be much you cna do about it.
Hope it helps, it may be bad advice to put my traditional foe on the wrong foot but I don't think it is
Just what I wanted a high elve player!
The ring was a mistake! and wasn't ment to be there at all, can you get me a page number to therule where it says i can't take a dscoll and tome of furrion
the majority of the magic banners are there to fill points out XD and were just thrown here there and every where, so i'll fix that a little later. Although now looking at it if i take some of the silly ones away i could feild another unit of dark riders.
The master is built like that to challenge the swordmasters high strength him and his unit will be set up ready to charge them. as for making him bsb that might be a fair idea.
What would you say are the best lores to use against High elves?
You have my thanks for the advice
Page 500, under Balance of Power, second sentence tells you that you only get to pick 1 item from each category. In previous editions, Scrolls had a written exception to the rule, but that's gone now.
Never add anything to your list "just to fill points out". I've always set my lists up to run a few points over budget, and then trimmed them down. Making the tough choices on just how many models you need in a unit, whether you really need that full command, etc, will make your list much tighter and more efficient. What unit do you currently not have on the table that you'd like to add in? Or what item would you like to have? Add it, see how much you're over by, and then start trimming off points.
The Wailing Banner won't help you against High Elves, as 'Valour of Ages' means that they reroll any failed Psychology checks against you, regardless of having a BSB.
I would also use the extra points to boost up your Spearmen. Both of your Spearmen units hit eachother on 4's, both have rerolls every turn, both wound on 4's, and both have the same save. The difference is that he's going to swing ahead of you (and costs 3pts more a model). I'd almost drop the Dark Riders, just because a single unit of 5 is just missile-bait. If you wanted to be a real jerk and drop the Spearmen for more Dark Riders though... that could go horribly for him.
Your Crossbows have no need of a full command. 16 of them will hardly rank up to form an effective unit, and anything he has is going to walk right through them in combat. The Champion can certainly go (should go in all of your units, it's hardly worth it for +1A or +1BS), and probably the banner as well. If you want to keep the musician in for rallying, that's on you.
I forget - do Blackgaurd get Wardsaves just like Phoenix Guard, or are they different somehow? If they don't have Wardsaves (and possibly even if they do) I'd swap them out for Executioners with the Banner of Hag Graef, to make them fast enough to drop the High Elf rerolls, having Hatred will win you the day here. Again, the Dread Banner isn't worth it since the Elves are going to be getting their rerolls against psychology in this fight.
I'd mix your Cold One Knights together, and drop their command down to a Banner and Musician. It saves you points and it nets you a rank, which is good - it makes cavalry more viable. You have enough fast-moving units in the army to cover your flanks, these guys would be used for hunting down his Dragon Princes or smashing through small units of infantry. I'd drop them though, the elf ASF is really going to make these guys feel quite fragile, especially because your options will likely be to charge into a massive ranked/steadfast unit of Spearmen, or into the perfect anti-knight unit of Swordmasters or White Lions.
Best lore against High Elves is probably going to be Shadows and Death for you, although Fire could be nice just to cut down their smaller units. Shadows would be best though - you can nerf their Initiative and WS with the signature spell, so that they lose their rerolls and are easier for you to hit. You can also drop their toughness to make it easier for you to wound them (or counteract Life spells like Flesh to Stone) and drop the strength of their Greatweapons to give you a fighting chance. Okkam's is awesome as well. Just remember that if you roll up Pit of Shades or Pendulum to swap it for the 0-level spell. Death is good for sniping out their casters from their bunkers.
Don't know the page numbers but it I believe it is at the beginning of the magic items section where they say you can't use more than one item from each category Weapon, Armour Enchanted, Arcane, Talisman, Banner. The old rules used to state an exception for scrolls and powerstones, the exception is gone as far as I am aware.
Master to charge the SM is an idea, however be careful there- Cavalry 6 wide allows 8SM into front rank for combat, lets say that's 21 attacks hitting on 3's without rerolls (COK are I-6) 14 hits, say 11 wounds you save on 4+ so 5-6 dead Cold ones before you strike, so only your Master attacks back kills 2 SM but still loses by 3 or 4. SM are fodder for your RXB's you have nothing except Hydras that can threaten them in combat. If you must fight them use either the banner of Hag Graef (both units will destroy each other) or massive spearmen units, if possible don't hunt SM with Elites, they strike first with WS 6, 2 A and S 5, a High Elf players dream of small expensive elites to feed to their Swordmasters.
Dark Magic is still really good, Shadow is pretty handy (I use it for HE lots esp to support shooting), my friend really likes Metal for some reason but I like it when he uses metal so its probably a bad lore, I haven't played too much with death.
Anyway, hope the list performs perfectly but the dice fail you in a couple of clutch rolls once a High Elf always a High Elf I guess.
so it does.... how about that lol yeah thinking about that now its probally a bad idea, maybe i will just shoot the crap out of them first...I have yet to see or play my opponent so gonna be interesting to see what he's got ect, I'm not exactly used to this 1 wound thing.....I've been an avid Ogre player since the new book it revitalized them for me, Dark elves kinda sat on the shelf till i found out i was playing highelves.
Right need to drop 147 points any idea?
You're already over by 147, or you added something else in?
Right now I'd drop (unit by unit)
drop the Cold One, Ring of Hotek (if you didn't already) maybe the Focus Familiar
ditch your Tome of Furion
lose that Sea Dragon cloak, and the Cold One, possibly even the Sword of Battle
All commands and shields on your crossbows maybe the Banner of Murder on your Spears, and maybe their Champion as well
5 Dark Riders - you could drop these if you're not adding another unit of them.
Cold Ones Knights: Combine these units, drop the Champion, ditch the magic banners.
20 Black Guard: ditch the Champion, drop the magic banner unless you go for Hag Graef
2 Reaper Bolt Throwers: you could drop these, as the Elves likely won't have much worth shooting at. Of course, at 3k they might bring a Dragon Prince (if they're not LO-goers) but you can deal with them with your RXBs (don't be afraid of the dragon, the rider is only T3 and has heavy armor and a 4+ ward at best).
List Overall - remember that if you're adding a character to a unit, drop a model from that unit. You don't need one extra guy hanging off the back "just in case you move the character". How often do you see characters switch units willingly (ditching a battered regiment doesn't count) during a battle?
Before you go adding anything else, or figuring out how many points to deduct, make sure that your master is a BSB, and you'll probably want Armor of Destiny on him for the Wardsave. Don't worry about giving him a magic flag.
i've just scratched 3000 atm with all the command and banners ect
i want to ditch 147 for another unit of dark riders
You could probably drop command on the Crossbowmen and Cry of War on the Assassins. That and Dance of Doom...a 5+ ward is better than nothing but Assassins really are one-hit wonders unless you're lucky.
In my opinion Halberds are the better option for an Elven character than a Great Weapon, you lose a point of Strength but you don't sacrifice your fantastic Initiative, although of course against High Elves that's kind of a moot point. I played a game today with a simple Dreadlord (Halberd, Armour of Darkness and Black Amulet) and he was murdering people in challenges (admittedly it was Empire but Volkmar was one of his victims). With Frenzy (from the Corsair unit he was in) he dishes out 5 WS7 S5 attacks at I8, not to be sniffed at. Even Masters still hit with I7.
As said before the Wailing Banner, Dread Banner and Razor Standard aren't doing anything for your Black Guard and Knights. The Razor Standard is a good one for your Black Guard (or you could take the Warbanner on the Spearmen and give the Black Guard the cheaper Banner of Murder). The Knights are really too small to justify a magic banner, unless you dropped Command on one unit and put the two units together.
Might add more stuff but that's all I have on the top of my head and sleep beckons.
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