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hey guys what do u think about my Defensive Dark Elves?
Hero: Sorceress,lv2 wizard,lore of death,darkstar cloak at 150pts
Hero: Sorceress,lv2 wizard,Dark Magic,Tome of Furion at 145pts
Hero: Assassin, Black Lotus at 150pts
Core:16 Warriors,full command,repeater crossbows at 133pts
Core: 10 Corsairs,full command,banner of murder(this unit conseals Assassin)at 180pts
Special:10 Witch Elves,full command,witch brew at 185pts
Later on when i get up to 3000 pts i will include another RBt and A Caudron of Blood
The main idea of this army was to sit back with the Rbts and Repeater Crossbow elves shoot the enemy when they get close to threten the cauldron and my Rbt the crazed witches will jump on them while the corsairs and the assasian target ememy units will heros or lords
what do u think ~dapope
I think you should include some dark riders/harpies/furies to march-block, take out enemy war machines, and give your defense more time to do its thing.
The assasin, witch elves, and corsairs are probably better replaced with elements to do combined charges. Unless you face just the right enemy, these units won't generate the kills they need to win the combat for you, IMO. You want lightly armored, low toughness foes, without a lot of static CR. This combination is exceedingly rare.
You'd be better off baiting and flanking with rxb warriors and dark riders, IMO. I think it would be much more likely to work.
Arena of Death Champion: Nexim of the Guldskullz Tribe. Fear my wrath!
First thing I notice is the list totals about 1043 points. So if you were aiming for 1000, you've gone over.2 Sorceresses are pretty expensive for 1000pt level. So if you DO take them, you may aswell spend the extra to give them both power stones, just to really dominate the magic phase.Hero: Sorceress,lv2 wizard,lore of death,darkstar cloak at 150pts
Hero: Sorceress,lv2 wizard,Dark Magic,Tome of Furion at 145ptsShould always give him extra hand weapon.Hero: Assassin, Black Lotus at 150pts
Manebane + Rune of Khaine is probably the most popular set up16 is more a 6th edition formation..Core:16 Warriors,full command,repeater crossbows at 133pts
The general consencus is that you either take a LARGE squad of spearmen (20-25), or, a small squad of crossbows (10-12). So, I would either drop atleast 4, or switch them to spearmen with shields.This wont work.Core: 10 Corsairs,full command,banner of murder(this unit conseals Assassin)at 180pts
The unit is too small to give any static Combat res support to the assasain. This unit will probably break, then you risk losing a banner & the assain to a persuit move. Thats 430 easy victory pointsI would drop these to beef up the Corsairs to 18 minimum, for the said reasons.Special:10 Witch Elves,full command,witch brew at 185pts
They dont have much of a place in defensive lists anyhow. No armour, low numbers. They are much better in an aggressive listokRare:RBtCauldron of Blood is pretty much useless. Id rather tell you than have you waste your money & find out the hard way :xLater on when i get up to 3000 pts i will include another RBt and A Caudron of Blood
Dark Elves - Game #28 vs High Elves: Draw
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21 5 5
k, im a veteren player w/DE and when i 1st heard this topic i got worried. When i 1st started playing, i tried the same thing bc i was inexperienced.I lost almost all of my games. After that i began realizing that the DE's were an offensive race. I know how important it is to include some units to take out things like war machines, but some players will concentrate on that unit alone and take it out b4 it does its job......it becomes a waste of pts. Now, if u had a mobile army, when their army has their flank exposed, you could roll up their whole battle line(depending on the army). But with defensive, you will basically let them reform and advance once they are done with their former thret. While this may buy you some time and allow for more shooting, you will realize most elves cant hold out for 3 turns in close combat..........
k,so if i wanted a offensive DE army what do u suggest i change in my list ?
@ shadowblademafia: Welcome to the boards & good advice there. Just try not to use the net slang ('bc' 'u' etc), the mods pretty much enforce good spelling & grammar.
Swap them both & the assasain for a Noble with Seal of Ghrond + whatever other items you want. Whether he goes in foot or mounted on Cold one or Chariot, depends on the rest of your list
If you'd like to know why, theres a thread about the best character set ups at 1000pts in the DE forum.
The points you save will let you field 2-4 extra units.
Next, I dont find crossbow warriors to have much of a place in DE offensive lists. You can afford to have a unit of them at 2000pts, to give some balance & flexibility, while still having enough points left to spend on Close combat stuff. However at 1000pts, you cant really spare the points.
Keep it to 1 RBT, its a bit of good ranged support but doesnt soak up too many points.
(RBT's still very much have a place in offensive lists, despite being shooty).
Basically with your infantry, if you take spearmen, go for large numbers. If you take Corsairs, go for large-ish number but maybe increase the frontage. So for example, 18 gives you rows of 6 = more attacks. Where as spearmen attacks arent usually worth it, so go for rows of 5 and more rank bonuses.
Corsairs are much better suited to the offensive role than spearmen. They get more attacks on the charge than spearmen, & they have a 4+ save against shooting compared to 5+ for spearmen.
For the more Elite infantry (Executioners, Witch Elves), its all about attack power. They are too expensive to take large units like spearmen to benefit from lots of rank bonuses & outnumber.
Fortunately their good combat skills mean they can make up for it with kills. This means you want to take a small unit, while getting as many attacks as you can.
For example, a unit of 14 Witch Elves, full command. 2 rows of 7. You only get 1 rank bonus & wont outnumber, but you get 22 poisoned attacks, compared to 5-10 normal attacks from Core troops. & the unit doesnt cost too much, like it would if you tried to take 18+
Generally I try to take 2 units for flanking. For me, thats usally a squad of 5-6 Dark riders & a squad of 5-6 Cold One Knights. Some people like to try to flank with Chariots, or the smaller Elite infantry units, but I find them too slow, personally.
& well, a unit of 6 harpies is almost too good to refuse.
Dark Elves - Game #28 vs High Elves: Draw
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21 5 5
I believe this is a poor piece of advise, esp from a 'veteran'. Dark elves can field an amazing array of defensive units, and with the aid of repeater crossbows, can fire a tremendous amount of shots.
Sharing your experiences, that you lost every game, is fine, but ive won every game with my defensive elves, so which one of us is right?
dapope, here are the units you need to consider for a defensive force. Basicly, we're trying to pump out as much shooting as possible:
Sorceress. Pretty obvious really. Magical shooting, and also defense against it. At 1k, one level 2 with dark star cloak. At 1.5k, another level 2, and at 2k, upgrade one to level 4. Should be plenty.
Spearelves. Suit up 20-25 of em with shields and full command. These will give you that little bit of combat res you need SOMEONE to have, in warhammer. They also make a good place for your sorceress to hide if you need her a bit closer to the enemy and need protection against missiles. Dont be afraid to charge these guys, either, if combat res can break an oncoming enemy.
Crossbow warriors. Again, an obvious choice. 10-12 with shields will do the job nicely. Heres a very good setup that some other players at my local GW use with great success. Run 20 of these guys with full command and shields. Put them in 2 ranks of 10 on top of a hill. Shoot at the on coming enemy as they approach (an amazing 40 shots per turn!) and when they get in charge range, re-address the ranks to 4 ranks of 5. Shoot again, and again as a stand and shoot reaction. Since you're on top of a hill, with full command, 3 ranks, outnumber AND a 4+ save, you should break most enemys.
Shades. A very handy scouting unit that also gets you in range with crossbows on turn one. They are also very hard to hit with BS based fire, as long as they are hidden in terrain. Id go with 8-9 of these guys.
Dark riders. A great flanking unit, that can harass the enemy with crossbows unitil it's the right time to charge in a flank or rear. Id run 8 with crossbows, standard and muso. This unit will be another important combat unit, which is what youll lack. Dont worry too much tho, you're trying to win by shooting!
Menghil and his manflayers. An amazing scouting unit thats near impossible to hit with BS based fire. Coupled with poisoned crossbows, and a BS of 5, use these guys to down enemy monsters, or extremely tough units (orcs, for example). However, they are VERY expensive, so excluding them isnt the biggest crime. His rules can be found on the Dogs of War section of the GW website. Id also go with menghil and 8 of his manflayers.
Harpies. Great for march blocking, screening and warmachine hunting. The less that fires back at you, the better off you are. Id take 6-8 of these dudes.
Chariots. These make a pretty good counter-charge unit into any depleted enemy. Again, not a crime to exclude them if you cant fit them, but worth consideration.
Reaper bolt throwers. You absolutly MUST HAVE THESE GUYS!!!! Always take as many as you can. That means your rare choices are always filled wth 2 of these per choice. You'll thank me later.
A final hint. Dont get amy worse than 5+ to hit with your crossbows. If that meansnot multiple shooting, fine. Wait til next turn (unless its menghil. Get all the sixes you can!)
Well, nice opinion, I probably should have said that they are poor at battles of attrition, not defensive battles. I am used to playing Brettonian and OK, so I found that defensive for me didn't work out to well. Just dont expect a unit of 20 spearmen to last all that long. Sorry for the incorrect use of words, I am just trying to say that once the enemy hits home you really need to count on withered down enemy units, especially against horde armies(O and G in perticular because of low pt cost and T4 for orcs) this may be risky. Oh, and do go getting on people's cases about being right or wrong, I have won every game with my DE since i started playing differently. You win some, you lose some, you know?
That's true. My friend plays orcs often, and i see their lack of armor come into effect all too often. I usually tag-team with a lizardmen player(don't ask), and his 40+ poisened shots really hurts him. The low armor is where my WE and Corsairs reallly shine(i mean, there is only so many hits a unit can take before they are in too deep).