DE tips and tricks [BETA]

[jax40kplyr]

I would think though that the deciding factor between the two of them would be number of attacks (mathhammer aside - the number of attacks should equal out the decrease in strength, coupled with rerolls every round of combat), but more importantly BG being immune to psychology and stubborn.

[zhaf]

I would think though that the deciding factor between the two of them would be number of attacks (mathhammer aside - the number of attacks should equal out the decrease in strength, coupled with rerolls every round of combat), but more importantly BG being immune to psychology and stubborn.

I don't think that mathhammer has anything to do with those two units as they clearly have very different roles in an army. If you come to a decision of black guard or executioners as a last choice for your army they you've done something wrong.

[AVS Agent]

BG aren't half as cool as Executoniers

I second that motion. I'm REALLY tempted to just buy twenty Executioners and use them as Black Guard just for the models - but I'm afraid about how my fellow players / torney runners will react.


Zhaf, which do you prefer and why? I'd imagine you'd swing either way depending on the typeof army you're making and what opponent you can expect.

I would like to mention, however, that Executioners can have pretty much the same roll as BG as long as they hve the ASF banner. Exectioners with ASF make for great defensive or offensive troops (as do BG) but sacrific volume of attacks for higher strength. Of course, BG have Stubburn and such....

[Dire]

...but Exes with ASF and Death Hag simply

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all opponents, so that's simply not needed. Also bretonnian cavalary. And they do that far better than exe. And enemy infantry outcluding Swordmasters won' stand a chance. Oh, no, I forgot. Hag will shred them. So okay, they do

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all opponents.

And look so chiefy...

[zhaf]

@AVS Agent: I disagree that executioners are good for defensive purposes. The black guard have higher I, Stubborn, ItP and re rolls in every round of combat for just 1 pt more. KB and high S isn't an issue in a defensive unit. On top of that you don't have to waste a character (specially your BS for them to get ASF. You can't ever archive that with executioners. The death hag will cost between 150-200pts and that's a huge pt sink just to get one unit better. I'd much rather use warriors hw+sh with warbanner for a CR win than use Executioners for a wound win.
If we're talking flanking though I think that the executioners are the best we've got (yes I even think they're better than knights). They're "cheap", have the ever so wanted S6 and they have killing blow on top of that. They can deal with most armour and often for a much lower pts than other options. Flanking you don't need ASF since you're the one that is charging and combined with the static CR any frontal infantry block your opponent is facing you can probably break them on the charge. A unit of BG can't do that for you, CoKs/chariots can but at a much higher pts cost and stupidity, witches are too weak.
Hope that explains how I think about them.

@Dire: Please make quality posts.

[AVS Agent]

I've got no disagreements with your points Zhaf. Personally, I am leaning towards BG for the same reasons plus the fact that taking both BG and Executioners can be... tricky.... (not to mention expensive in cash).

The only reason I'd give Executioners ASF is because getting the charge with Executioners isn't as "sure-fire" as with, say, Cold One Knights. When charged, I think we all know how well a unit of Executioners holds up! Plus, Executioners with ASF would be muder against Bretonian / Chaos / whatever cavalry (which will more than likely get the charge and have a nice high AS for the great weapons to carve through).

Still, we can't always know who our opponents will be, so I once again agree BG are probably the way to go - a fact which hurts me a lot since the Exec.'s models are so friggin' awesome!

[zhaf]

well as I said if you're flanking your opponent should already be stuck in one of your units already making a flank charge very easy to do. You can place some dark riders in front of the executioners so if your opponent want to charge them they have to charge the dark riders first. Just choose flee with the riders and your opponent just made a failed charge and got his unit closer to your executioners for you to charge.
I use both black guard and executioners in my list and doing quite well.

[kithre]

ASF Executioners are also much, much more expensive as stated. Its a unit of ELves with Heavy Armour at the end of the day - a big unit of Executioners is:

1) a waste of points -the extra ranks are a very expensive way of getting static combat res
2) a massive sitting target just waiting to be shot by whatever artillery is available.

Against Bretonnians with their one-trick ponies, yes these boys are vicious, especiallyw ith ASF, but woe betide if the Bretonnians have a field Trebuchet at their disposal...

But I would put it to you that a block of Executioners would actually lose combat vs. a block of Sword masters or White Lions - Swordmasters have I5, so may end up striking after them, but may end up striking before them as well, and they have twice as many atacks

White Lions have a higher I so will attack first, but only one attack each. However, with S6 on both sides (like the Executioners, WL are base S4) the killing blow is irrelevant.

I would take my 2-3 smaller units of white lions which combined will heavily outnumber a big block of Executioners with an expensive BSB any day of the week...

Against Black Guard - it becomes a lot more of a gamble - they are stubborn so holding should not be a problem. With Kouran they become harder still, and he is a lot cheaper than a Hag BSB. They can churn double the attacks that Executioners can.

[AVS Agent]

Certainly, a Hag BSB is not going to me included in any "generic" list I make. I'd really only take that against Bretonians. Also, note that Master + unit of Black Guard with Crimson Death armed champ has just as many S6 attacks, plus more S4 attacks than a similar unit of 14 executioners ran 7x2 with a hag. That was the big factor in my choosing BG. Now, if I could only get them to combat alive....

As a side note, I can't believe how awesmoly underpriced the new HEs are. Swordmasters get ASF, GW, and 2 attacks for 3 pts more than an Executioner? WHAT??? Sorry, I had to say it. We were all thinking it, I know. Don't get me started about White Lions

I'd also like to mention the use of a Hydra Banner BSb with Coks. Very potent, but an arrow / magic magnet. Again, if only I could get them to combat....

By the way, if anyone has tips on getting units into combat, that's be great to include here with the tips and tricks.

[greymonk]

In my last battle I played with both executioners (/w asf) and with blackguard.

I backboned my army with a cauldron, so the executioners were awesome! The blackguard held the other side of the line.

Both units acted admirably but the executioners cut through my opponents chaos army like a knife through warm butter! The blackguard weren't slouching either as they toppled a giant, a chariot, and a unit of marauders.

If you are taking a cauldron, PLEASE try the executioners!