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I am really trying to build an army based around a character on a dragon, but I'm having a hard time negotiating the points between Magic and Effective Beasts.
So here's the question:
When you take your dragon, do you take
1. A Dreadlord? (in which case, what do you do after that for magic both defensively and offensively)
2. A Supreme Sorceress (in which case, how do you make the dragon more useful a mount than say a dark pegasus and make it earn its points?)
Thanks any that can help me out with this!
No fate but what you make.
Dragons are awesome! I love putting them in my games whenever it wouldnt be super over-powering.
First of all I would suggest that the next time you post you give a general idea of what points your looking at army wise. At least a general area. This will greatly speed up the arrival of answers that you might actually find useful.
"whenever I play with my 5000 point army of wrath & destruction I use 3 dragons, 8 soceresses, four hydras...." "thanks, after I take a loan out on my house Ill try it out...."
For your magical protection/power when going with your dreadlord:
I suggest two sorceressess, always. If your not going to take two, than just take one and focus on dispelling. i.e. buy scrolls of dispelling, place a couple of talismans out in your units(the one that gives magic resistance. your whole unit gets it, if your characters owning it are with them. It also stacks but I have not found it worth that many points)
If you want offense with one I suggest cranking her up to second level and giving her the sacrificial dagger. Then place her with a block of expendable friendlys. This will help you get some spells off but probably not against an opponent focused on magic or magic denial.
If you can afford a second one, upgrade her too and giver her the focus familiar.
I would take dark magic as its pretty good all around. But theres fire too. And death& shadow.
As for the wicked witch riding trogdor herself, I dont think its worth the points. The real advantage of a dragon mount is physical combat which you will want to avoid with the Supreme Sorceress. She wont even get a +1 for being mounted as its a monster. On top of that the attacking party in CC can choose which one they attack. HMMMMM.....general of the army the casty and squishy shanarith or the tough as stone and angry MR. piggles. I will take madame shannarith for two hundred please alex.
Also terror, the other dragon asset, can come from an item or much less costly creatures.
hope this helps
I prefer Sorceresses on a Dragon. I give her the Pendant and Focus Familiar and go to town. The dragon alone can break units at the flank, and with the familiar I can use magic to full effect while the dragon is busy eating people.
Randomhero you're completely right, I should have put a points example in there. I'm mostly looking for 2250 points.
Fortunately, I have a dragon and a manti, so I think based on what you say I'll probably either run:
- a dreadlord + dragon with 2 'level 2' sorceresses,
- or a level 4 sorceress w/darkstar cloak, hero on manti with pend. of khaeleth and other random protection-based equips, and a level 2 sorceress with sacrificial dagger
-or a dreadlord on a manti, and 3 'level 2' sorceresses with darkstar, sacrifice dagger, and ghrond
How does that sound? BTW, thanks for all who responded! Even though I have a lot of models to mess around with for dark elves, my experience with the pointy-haired cretins is pretty limited so thank you very much for giving me insights/tips onto this ^_^
No fate but what you make.
I would listen to ===Me===, he sounds like he's had some experience. Personally, I don't like putting so many eggs in one basket. But Supreme Sor. like he stated is a decent way to run a dragon with magic. Personally, if I was going to use a dragon, I think I would go with a fast, hard-hitting list. Magic defense is still available and effective if desired. Dreadlord on dragon with pendant. You can fit in a level 1 scroll caddy and Seal of Ghrond and then place Null Talismans on the important units/characters you don't want zapped. Magic weapons are nice, but not needed imo on a dreadlord, because after all, he does have hatred and a dragon underneath him.
Shades and harpies and dark riders would be a must and maybe even a master on a pegasus just for fun. You can fill out the rest with whatever you want.
I'm really starting to take to heart the masters/sorc. on dark pegasus. I have the models for it (some 40k dark eldar wyches and pegasus that comes with bret. pegasus knights) and I think it would look cool and imposing.
Ooh maybe I can have a master on dark peg. with the terror mask and regular armaments, sorta like a poor-man's manticore
I really wanna stretch my points in a 2250 game to include a unit of shades, but I just don't want to give anything up really.
No fate but what you make.
I'd avoid the Peggy on a fighty character, especially your general. It's too easy to get shot out from under you. And the Terror Mask is pointless I think in an army with so many Terror causers.
If you want to go for a smashy Dreadlord on a Dragon, buckero0 has the right idea. Take a speedy list to go with him, so Shades, Dark Riders, Harpies, Hydras and the like.
For the man himself, I like the Pendant, Armor of Darkness, and Crimson Death. Relatively cheap, 2+ armor and super ward with a good S6 weapon and the Dragon of course. You may also want to consider the Chillblade (swapping AoD for Blood Armor or ha, sdc and enchanted shield). The Dragon has high S attack covered, while the Chillblade can go up against well protected enemies like other Pendant users or really hard to kill stuff like Nurgle Heralds and Vampires.
To go with him, a level 1 Scroll caddy, 2 Hydras, Dark Riders and Harpies like nuts, Shades, and the like. If points allow, a BSB on a Cold One and a unit if COKs hits almost as hard as the Dragon itself.
Ok ok, *scraps the hero on a pegasus idea*
How do you feel about a sorceress on a peggi?
Also, great idea with chillblade, I've been looking for a way to diversify with the army a bit. I really believe in expensive protection for my exposed heroes, hence the regen and ward save. I find that once I save the first cannonball, my opponent gets frustrated and doesn't shoot at the over-protected hero so much or goes all out and leaves everybody else alone in his quest to kill the hero.
yeah, terror mask probably is a bit redundant, but it would be a HUGE surprise to put on a champ leading a unit of cold one knights. Imagine if you had both flanks of their army covered with terror-causing things AND up the middle comes 2 war hydras. You would frikkin have to fail at least 1 or 2 terror tests somewhere in your units (ooh those poor goblin armies).
Think of it this way - they would fail about the same amount of times a greenskin army fails their animosity tests. Even if you had leadership 9-10s all around, the dice hate everyone equally
Of course, this would totally fail against a demon or undead army, but everybody else...
No fate but what you make.
If i was to have a dragon in my army then I guess I'd do something like:
Dreadlord - 556pts
- Crimson Death
- Ring of Darkness
- Armour of Darkness
- Sea Dragon Cloak
- Black Dragon (like i needed to type it in)
A nice flurry of str 6 attacks and with a dash of staying power for any attacks back. But the Ring offers decent protection from shooting (provided they need to roll to hit) and combat, considering the high Ws.I'd stay away from the Sorceress, having no armour means that if the opponent fires enough shots she'll probably die, whats more, she's visible to pretty much the whole battlefield on a dragon, making Focus Familiar rather mute. While the pendant helps in this regard it's only really useful against high strength attacks (granted cannon), but not against volleys of arrows as an example. Also when firing magic from range you're also not using the Dragons incredible strength and toughness but rather just its wings, in which case a Dark Pegasus would fit the bill far better IMO.Originally Posted by ==Me==Terror is also great at instantly breaking a unit, handy against those stubborn units, especially useful combined with the unit strength and killing potential of a dragon and its rider. (obvious stuff but I though it worth mentioning)Originally Posted by juravial
Sorc has the Pendant, no worries there
She's best on her beastie running straight into combat. Use the Familiar to keep casting from outside the fight, while the Dragon eats ranks and she sits pretty with the Pendant to keep her safe.