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Help Against WoC

1K views 16 replies 6 participants last post by  ==Me== 
#1 ·
I have not played against WoC yet nor do I know much about their units and the strength's weaknesses of the WoC army. I will be able to play against a guy who is getting pretty cocky with them and he's not lost a game since he switched over to them from his Vampire Counts. Not only is he beating all my friends, he is beating them badly. I made a call today and we are in the process of arranging a time and place for he and I to play. It will be a 3,000 point game and basically I just wanna know more about WoC and how people play them... at least experienced WoC players play them. And if there are any suggestions on a few things I might should consider on characters(and setup)/special units/which magic(if any)
I should go for. Any and all information will be appreciated and considered. Like I said Ive not yet played them so I have no clue tactically how I should be thinking when making my list against them. Hopefully I can get advice from a few who can speak from experience playing WoC and a little report on what worked and what didnt.
 
#2 ·
I have fought Chaos a few times and they are a handful. The army I fought consisted of 2 units of 20 marauders (one with great weapons) 2 units of 15 warriors, 2 units of 5 chaos knights, 10 warhounds, 10 chosen, a lord and sorceress. He basically used his marauders and warhounds as screens for his units.

Unfortunatly for me there was quite a bit of scenery and los was a problem. Even with my 2 bolt throwers and 2x10 units of repeater crossbowmen bairly made a dent in his army before he was able to come into contact with me.

Basic strategy for WoC is to just charge forward since they bairly have shooting. Start your army pretty far back so you can get a few shooting turns off before he gets there...because ones he does they hit HARD.

Marauders basically tie up your guys until the elite units come. And if his general or BSB is in range thier leadership would be 9-10. Id reocommend, if you can, to try to get these units down in the first shooting phase. They are probably the front line troops and are faily easy to kill, especially with repeater crossbowmen.

An ESSENTIAL unit against WoC is the black guard, take a fairly large unit of them. If he gives the WoC hand weapons and shields they turn into knights, S4 2+ armor save 2 At. Whats great about the BG is being stubborn. Its basically going to take you two units to take down these WoC guys so having a stubborn unit to draw out combat is essential.

Spearmen didnt do anything at all, either they got destroyed by warriors with GW or couldnt do anything against warriors with hand weapons...useless. Id take corsairs maybe with a banner of murder (ap attacks) getting 10+ attacks with ap will certainly help, especially against marauders. Executioners were pretty useless although i only had a unit of 10 for flanking. They basically had to whipe out whoever they were facing or they were done when chaos hit. Even with hand weapons regular warriors just destroyed them. S4 2At means a 6+ save for the executioners.

Also, dont be scared of the chosen, they are basically chaos warriors but just a little beefed up. Dont wase all your shooting on them like i did thinking they would destroy my entire army.

Final recommendations...try to take items that decrease armor saves, take Cold One Knights, Black Guard, Corsairs (with maybe an assassin in them...manblade/rune of kaine), 2 BT, and heroes/lord with high S weaponts or no armor save weapons. Take a war hydra...beasts in CC and the WoC guy has no shooting so you wont have to worry about it being focused.

Good luck
 
#4 ·
Yes they have to take break tests as normal, but they get to re roll Panic tests as an army wide rule. Another army wide rule being that all characters, champions included must challenge and accept challenges. Certain Characters in WoC (Chaos Lords & Exalted heroes, Sorc Lords and Sorcs) get to roll on a table of buffs if they kill a monster or enemy character in a challenge as well, so watch out for that. As a result many WoC armies have very deadly Challenge Characters.

WoC have tons of different army options that need to be dealt with in completely different ways, such as full cav armies, magic heavy armies, combat heavy armies etc, so advice is kind of hard to give as a whole, as he could be running a full footslogger army, with tons of chosen and Warriors, or he could be running 4 KNight units and fast cav. Obviously you can't deal with these in the same way so if you could get more info on his list it would help in the advice department a whole lot.
 
#6 ·
WoC have no skirmishers and flyers, march block and run circles around hid army. You won't beat them one on one, so use your mobility to isolated his slow units of Warriors and pick off the weaker units.

Against his magic, go for MR and scrolls to stop Gateway. The Ring of Hotek won't help as he'll be packing the puppet.
 
#7 ·
Chaos magic is absurdly good. Id grab 2+ mages, maybe take a seal of ghrond, definitely a dispel scroll. I've seen harpies help out quite a bit against WoC. If nothing else they would be a great distraction. Most armies just charge foward hoping they get into CC before they are too dwindled down by shooting. Maybe having a hero on a pegasus would work as well, just to fly behind his lines and disrupt his combat line. The pegasus and harpies would only really be voulnerable to magic but if you have 2+ mages and the seal of ghrond, magic shouldnt be too much of a problem.
 
#8 ·
I would also say to take some offensive magic as well as the defensive. Remember that your sorceresses can use the lore of metal so you could take:

Lvl 2 Sorc w/ seal of ghrond + tome of furion.

Lvl 2 Sorc w/ Sacrificial daggar + dispell scroll.

black guard are a must have too :).
 
#9 ·
why do you guys mention black guard? They are actually quite terrible against WoC. They only hit on 4's, they wound on 4+ against most of their units and they don't have the strength to get through WoC armor.

Executioners would actually be better. Cauldron would make them really good against WoC.

I'd try to go magic heavy as well. There will most likely be a lot of tzeentch magic, possibly a demon prince who can reroll his die for total power or total dispel each turn. This is a tough setup because he's hard to pin down and his magic is better than yours. I'd try to make his guys challenge you out as well.

Are you looking to have a fun game or just beat this guy and wipe the smug face off? We have ways of being just as cheeky as they are.
 
#11 ·
yeah, but a lot of their guys are much more durable in my opinion/experience. sure, the pendant of khalieth should deflect most of their blows, but a champion would go down way too easy and provide overkill. BG vs T4 guys usually end up losing the fight and getting ranks taken off each combat turn. I'd rather have something that can hit, break through and run the enemy down. Non-stupid cold ones (if there were such a thing) would be better than BG imo.

They do have a nasty banner that makes everyone within 6" stubborn as well. Lots of nasty stuff coming thru. I'd say use the ring of hotek, because I'm pretty sure the infernal puppet is only one use only and if it keeps the enemy from removing a unit per turn, then it's worth taking. (most of the tourny lists have a tzeentch demon prince with tendrils and MR2 and they don't need line of sight for gateway)
 
#12 ·
Gateway needs LoS, it's a magic missile. The Infernal Puppet can be used all game too, it's the best magic item in the book. Worst case with the Ring is letting him get the spell off irresistably, or suffering no damage at all.

I don't think BG could take on WoC head to head, but they will hold them in place indefinitely, letting you flank with COKs, Hydras, and the like.

BG 6 wide dish out 12 attacks, hitting on a 3+ and wounding on a 5+, giving the WoC -1 to armor, so depending on how they're kitted out (shields or no) you'll get .89 or 1.78 kills. They swing back (assuming 6 wide) with 5 or 8 attacks, hitting on 4+, wounding on 3+ and giving the BG 6+ armor. That's 1.39 kills from shields, 2.22 from 2hw. It should remain fairly even, but the BG won't be going anywhere. Add in characters and things get interesting (especially since they have to challenge characters, namely your invincible Dreadlord).
 
#13 · (Edited)
I must be getting their magic items mixed up. I'm thinking of the one that makes you take a wound. I'm pretty sure gateway only needs 24" range and no LoS. With Tendrils, you're getting it off every time and getting total power about 1/3 of the time (maybe a bit less)

I just think Elves have a hard time taking T4 models in my experience, especially knights and warriors (usually I dance around them and shoot/magic them) but like I said, the DP list will be tough for us to fight against. My bG are less elite I guess. My math is a bit different as well. Regular Chaos Warriors are going to get 10 attacks back with shields or more, which means I'll lose 6-7 BG a turn. Obviously, there are some other things you can put in there to help them out.

Hey =Me=, do you mind taking a look over at my army list? I'm bringing out my DE again this weekend for a tourney, I really need help with my Dreadlord build.
 
#14 ·
I've got it! Maybe. Take the black guard, ASF banner ofc. Give the champion crimson death. Put a master in there with soulrender and armour of darkness and then let them do their worst. Your champion's 3 S6 attacks should do the trick when paired with a further 3 S6 AP attacks from your master. The rest of then unit can maybe get another kill and that will be that.

Alternatively, you can throw a BSB in instead of the master and give him the hydra banner, GW, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak. Thats 8 S6 attacks from the BSB and champ and 12 S4 attacks from the unit. Should do the trick, by my maths you would get around 4-5 kills from the BSB and champ and a further 1(ish) kill from the unit. And thats against chaos armour and shield. Should do it i think. Ah, do correct me if i'm wrong though.
 
#16 ·
Yeah he causes terror and has stubborn 8, but the point of the DPTzeentch list is to keep him out of combat. Gateway just needs range, not LoS (only 2 spells need LoS) so he can sit back and vaporate units with gateway and half the time he can't be stopped due to the reroll with Tendrils. He may not be as tough as others, but with 20" fly movement, he's going to be hard to pin down. He can have MR2 for cheap as well and can easily take on light troops/fast cav, etc.
 
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