Corsairs as a major core choice used slightly unconventionally - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    LO Zealot Heiromyo's Avatar
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    Corsairs as a major core choice used slightly unconventionally

    The corsairs post seems a bit cluttered and out of context for this so I thought I'd start a new thread for fresh minds and ideas.

    I've been dabbling with Dark Elves for a while now and the core choices seem to fail me quite a bit (feel free to comment on these as well):

    - Spearmen good power dice but ultimately get cut down when something closes in...lets be fair they arn't great combatants,
    - Crossbowmen deal more damage over time but nothing that impacts the game by a large amount,
    - Dark Riders good for flanking but offers my opponent combat resolution in conjunction with another unit, crossbows are inaccurate when moving and deal little damage even when warmachine hunting.

    This leaves me with the corsairs. I've been using crossbowmen because they're cheap and they offer the best payback thus far in my games.

    My Idea with the Corsairs is that a unit of 10 is the same cost as Crossbowmen, they get a handbow for free and have better protection albeit a shorter range. So instead of a row of 10 crossbowmen I have a row of 10 corsairs advance towards the opponent until the get range to fire once then stand and shoot during their turn. If oppitunity arises I may flee in order to give another unit a chance to shoot or gain the charge advange from somewhere else etc.

    Of course....no banners or musicians just a reaver with dual handbows. Though unlikely there may be an asassin included (points permitted) to deal with the charge or asassinate unsuspecting characters.

    So....comments on this set-up?

    Last edited by Heiromyo; May 14th, 2009 at 21:20.
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  3. #2
    Shrubs for the Blood God Undead Bonzi's Avatar
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    Some thoughts.

    #1. You're selling our spearmen short. They don't win by kills, they win by cheap static combat rez. A block of 20 Spearmen with shields, full comand and a War Banner provides a very cheap anvil unit that pairs well with CoK/CoC/Execs/Dark Riders as flankers. Cheap core spearmen with WS4, a +4 save in CC and hatred is a great strength for the DE. Spearmen are a better defensive core choice than Corsairs, Corsairs are a better offensive core unit compared to Spearmen.

    #2. You point out that Crossbowmen are not a game winning unit by themselves...but you want to base an army off of a gimped Corsair version of them. If you don't think RxB's can win a game...what makes the RxHB's better?

    #3. Dark Riders are fantastic flanking/support units. Again, you can't base an army off of them but they fill a needed role in most DE lists.

    #4. Corsairs with RxHB are much like Dark Riders. They can form a supporting/screening element to an army...but I can't see them functioning well as your sole Core choice. The best use of RxHB Corsairs is as a screen for BG. The Corsair shooting save protects them as they move forward in front of the BG, they pepper the enemy with fire then flee the charge through the ItP ASF BG...boom, you've got your BG in combat without taking any shooting losses.

    #5. Don't forget 2HW Corsairs. These guys can go toe to toe with most armies T3 core troops and come out on top. They only really come up short against T4 or high armour saves.

    #6. Why do you want your core choice to only be one type of troop kitted out one way? The strength of DE is how well all the core units complement one another. An army with RxB, Spearmen and Dark Riders is going to be stronger and more flexible than any mono choice core list that can be made. Don't gimp yourself by limiting your choices to just one unit kitted one way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heiromyo View Post

    - Spearmen good power dice but ultimately get cut down when something closes in...lets be fair they arn't great combatants,Their stats are better than average (human) but really as a core choice they aren't mean to do harm. In fact, like most other core choices, they only sustain themselves in combat when they keep the big 5 (numbers, 3 ranks and banner ) and they can contribute the big 5 combat res (or more with warbanner, etc) to our elite units which don't have ranks or numbers and are considerably more expensive but more deadly. I think you (and many others) are expecting too much
    - Crossbowmen deal more damage over time but nothing that impacts the game by a large amount, This is a matter of opinion. Once again, they are fairly cheap and get a great save (4+with shields) compared to any other ranged unit in the game. They can claim table quarters and hold sorceresses and don't discount the armor piercing and multi shots. Sure it is not as effective vs. T4 troops, but it can devastate most other units, especially with the amount of firepower they can produce.
    - Dark Riders good for flanking but offers my opponent combat resolution in conjunction with another unit, crossbows are inaccurate when moving and deal little damage even when warmachine hunting. I disagree here as well. Other than maruaders, they are easily the best fast cav in the game. They are far from inaccurate as their superior movement can always get you in range. They have a much wider range of duties than just hitting the flank (march blocking, killing smaller units, keeping the enemy from fleeing, warmachine hunting, etc) so you might want to reevaluate how you use them.

    This leaves me with the corsairs. I've been using crossbowmen because they're cheap and they offer the best payback thus far in my games. I disagree here as well, they are not cheap in that they cost just as much as crossbowmen but get less range and less protection. The SDC doesn't offer the same protection because most shooting/magic negates a decent save anyway and they don't get a HW&S bonus in combat. They also don't get armor piercing.

    Right now the only advantage the corsairs have is that their models are vastly superior to any of the alternatives.

    However, with all that being said, I think a corsair list by itself would look great and have a great feel to it, and if you feel that you're having more fun and success with the corsairs, then more power to you. I know several people that feel that their army works better for them because they like the models or paint scheme or what have you. If you have a system that works for you and a role that the corsairs are filling then I would continue to use them as you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buckero0 View Post
    However, with all that being said, I think a corsair list by itself would look great and have a great feel to it, and if you feel that you're having more fun and success with the corsairs, then more power to you. I know several people that feel that their army works better for them because they like the models or paint scheme or what have you. If you have a system that works for you and a role that the corsairs are filling then I would continue to use them as you are.
    i agree here and if u like how the corsairs look and want to theme an army around them thats great. and if u really want to do a themed army u could even put lokhir in a unit and some assasains as well

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