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ok so i havn't vsed them yet but when i do i wanna know how i can beat them because atm im clueless as to how.
Anyone got some tips suggestions or what my army list must have? Ive heard magic can really hurt them.
Ty in advance
Dark Elves W/D/L/ 11-3-3
Dwarfs W/D/L 0/1/2
Last game: Dwarfs - Draw
Brets win or lose games based on their initial charge most times. So you have to either A) prevent them from getting the charge, or B) be able to take a charge and survive.
For A we have a few options. Reapers work wonders for taking out Brets as they stack up nicely in lance formation for us. We can take out three knights with one shot, 4 Reapers means bad times for the Brets. We can bait them and tie them until we can get there. Dark Riders and Harpies are great for this. Harpies charging a lance flank will rarely do much damage but they will pull the knights out of position as they pursue us. Magic can also help in this area. Remember that we don't have to take Dark Magic. Death has some spells that don't allow armor saves and Pit of Shades can get an entire unit with some good rolling.
B is a bit harder to accomplish as Brets are designed to win on a charge. Our best chance here is big blocks. 25 Warriors with full command has a chance. Also ASF Black Guard could work as they are Stubborn. If you use Kouran in the unit they become Unbreakable. That would be the most reliable way we have of holding up a charge.
So, in summary, we do have ways of dealing with Brets. Our best hope is to prevent them from getting the charge in the first place. To that end we have a few different options that can be successful. If they do get the charge we have a couple options for defense but as we are mainly an offensive army we don't have much to offer here.
If you tailor your list against Brets then I think you can be very effective. If you are using an all-comers list then you will need to work a bit harder but it is very possible to come out on the winning side.
if you think you can lure in a good regiment of Bret knights led by a mighty hero, you definitely want an Assassin waiting in your ranks ready for him. I have been able to stop a Knight charge off to a bad start, as Skaven Assassins get to fight first even when charged.
repeater crossbows and bolt throwers really whittle down their numbers. Also we have some of the best redirecting units in the game (harpies, DR).
We also have magic that will make them hurt, and better WS and decent leadership. I think you'll find that vs'ing bretts, shouldn't be that tough.
unless they bumped up Repeater Crossbows, I don't remember them being effective at all vs the Brett's. Sure the RBT can be their bane though.
Effective?? Looking at it on paper you wouldnt think so. But with -1 AS, try launching 20 or so shots at a unit of knights and you'll bag a kill or so. Do that for a few turns and you'll be happy with what you see.
yeah, you should have at least 2-3 units pumping out close to 5o shots plus 12 bolt thrower shots for 2-3 turns. That's a whole lot of 3 + armor saves and 6+ ward saves to take. Each failed save is 25+pts and less attacks coming your way and that's not counting dark riders which every army should have 2 units of as well to march block, shoot, and redirect so you punch the brets in the flank instead of letting them charge you.
I've seen shooting eliminate 1/2 a bret army before it got to charge and you still can take lore of metal or dark magic and make them WS1 or melt them out of their armor, etc.
I am still in the process of upgrading from 5.5th Edition (about half my stuff is 5th edition, half 6th) to 7th edition. In previous editions, repeating crossbows only had a S of 3, and going up against a standard Brettonian Knight's +2 AS, that rarely cut it. Vs Brettonians, you almost HAD to have Repeating Bolt Throwers (which was a mixed bag, in 5th edition the rules were clear you HAD to have a regiment of 10 or more of the DE's lesser infantry for ever RBT).
Do Brettonians still have the Lady's Blessing abillity? Where war machines must roll every round to fire vs Knight units? That also often evened things up well for the Brett's vs the Dark Elves.
My memory was in previous editions at least, it was RBT, Hydra's, and souped up characters were needed to take down the Bretts on the DE's part.
While RBT's are good, you need to remember almost all bret general will choose to pray (and go 2nd) and will therefore have a 6+ ward against < str 5 on all their knights, and a 5+ against => Str 5. This makes single shots from RBT's less effective since no matter what you still only have a 2/3 chance of killing the first two knights and once he saves one you dont get any more hits.
Honestly the best weapon against bretts is redirectors (of which DE have some of the best), get them into a bad position where they can be flanked and will lose ranks and they'll go down, and with their less then steller leadership they can be more easily broken with a decent combat res.
Im totally suprised noone has mentioned the couldron yet either, KB on a entire unit people, that is VERY scary to a brett general. And not only that if your using the KB on a unit with only str 3/4 attacks, they only get a 6+ ward.
Don't talk about old rules or rules that don't matter. That could confuse a newer player. Let's stick to the subject at hand which is what do the DE have to deal with Brets. I'd say nearly every choice in our book can deal with brets in one way or another.
I play both armies. Brets pray meaning you get an extra turn to shoot at them. Shooting is not the only way to deal with brets as we have several good combat troops as well, but if they pray they would get a 3+ and 6+ vs repeater crossbows, a 4+ and 6+ vs RBT. You'd have to be pretty silly to shoot a big bolt at a unit of brets. The point I was making is that we can have massed shooting with multiple roles in a 2250 army. All you have to do is make them fail armor saves. Just in averages with 20 wounds, their losing 5-6 knights. 20 wounds is pretty easy from 40 xbow shots and 12 RBT shots (like I said, there isn't anything in the bret book I would shoot a big bolt at)
As was mentioned. The shear number of attacks from frenzied witch elves or corsairs with KB or without can put Brets in a bind. It is very hard to make 10+ armor saves without failing 2-3. We have an armor piercing banner, killer troops, great fast cav and enormous amounts of shooting and attacks and very good movement.
Last edited by buckero0; May 30th, 2009 at 16:17.