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Quick Q for magic lances, you get the +2str on the charge, but are the other special stuff (ie auto-hit, killing blow) permanent?
well, permanent in that you have whatever bonus's the lance conferred upon the user to begin with, yes.
The same goes for the Deathpiercer. Holding the lance in 1 hand doesnt give you killing blow when you're hitting them with your hand weapon. If this is the case the don't cry when Chaos Sorcerors reroll all spell wounds when they're holding the Rending Sword which says they can reroll to wound!
You can use a lance in subsequent rounds of combat, it just doesn't give you the +2 strength charging bonus in the subsequent rounds. Therefore, you get to use the abilities, as you are using the lance.
No, I'm pretty sure the effects are permanent. You're still using the lance in non-charge assault phases; you just aren't getting the "+2 strength on the charge" bonus. The Chaos Sorceror analogy is not good as you're combining two different categories of attacks done in different turn phases.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
The rulebook says that the unit continues to use whatever weapon that they chose in the first round of combat in further subsequent rounds in that particular combat (pg 54 of the small rulebook, under WEAPONS)
Furthermore, if you have a magic weapon, you HAVE to use it (page 121 under MAGIC WEAPONS). Only reason I bring this up is because normally only magic weapons have special rules attached to them.
I don't have the Chaos book on me but doesn't the Rending Sword say that the bearer gets to reroll to wound in hand to hand? If it doesn't, then yes you would technically be right.
I just read the section about weapon selections, but my impression was that weapons which provide bonuses on the charge would only be used in the first round of combat. Can you imagine trying to hit someone with a lance who is right next to you? Most of the time after someone charges the enemy with the lance, the lance snaps thus leaving the original bearer having to use a sword.
However, if that's not the case then why are our mounted models provided with both options? Why even list the hand weapons then all you need is a lance/spear?
Dark riders come with a spear & HW
CoKs come with a lance & HW
Masters/lords come with a basic HW and can add a lance as well thus taking both
As for the Rending Sword, it just says a the model can reroll to wound. Doesnt specify whether in combat or magic, just gives the model the ability to reroll to wound. This is comparable to the lance rule, where you think you receive the special rule without using the weapon. Another comparison would be like giving a master two handbows but claiming it strikes at str 6 when you possess the Crimson Death. It says "A model wielding the Crimson Death always strikes with Strength 6." Doesnt specify in combat, thus can you say you can shoot str 6 bolts?
Last edited by Astynax; September 1st, 2009 at 00:04.
In real life, you are correct. After using a lance, calvary would switch to using a sword (or other similar hand weapons). In game terms, it does not matter for regular units, since they gain no bonus for the lance anymore and do not have any special rules attached to the lance. It only matters for characters since they are normally the only ones that get to bring magic items. In which case, as I pointed out previously, they still use their magic lances.
I'm not very familiar with all of the codices out there but if it says that the weilder gets to re-roll to wound with the Rending Sword and has no reference of in close combat...then yes...the wizard would get to re-roll to wound on the spells. Something that GW may not have thought about when writing the book and when writing the FAQ.
I do believe that the Crimson Death says something about getting strength 6 only in combat (I could be wrong). Even then, Crimson Death requires 2 hands...how do you shoot the bow? You got a 4 armed elf we don't know about? =P
I know you are trying to look at the rules as something being completely logical...but you forget one major thing about dealing with both Fantasy and 40k...GW's rules don't always make sense (trust me...I've found lots of rules that don't make sense and let people exploit certain parts of the game)