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Hi guys n' gals,
Just got a couple of questions on khainite units that I'm sure you dread lords could answer:
1) If an assasin has manbane and rolls a 6 to hit with normal poison, is the strength of this poisoned attack (for armour modifying purposes) altered by manbane?
E.g. assasin strikes a toughness 4 character and scores a poisoned hit. The assasin is base strength 4, but for a 3+ to wound the assasin's strength would be 5. Is this poisoned hit resolved at -2 to the enemy save?
2) On page 66 of the Dark Elf Bestiary, Crone Hellebron is said to be able to accompany a Cauldron of Blood (Co into battle. My quesion is: does she need to pay 200 more points on top of her original points cost to get a CoB or is it free, because it doesn't state that she needs to pay for it anywhere in her rules section, i.e. it isn't an option for her at the back of the book, it just says on page 66 that she can accompany a CoB into battle.
3) Does Witchbrew allow a unit of witch elves to retain their rank bonus, or does it just negate the enemy bonus for charging them in the flank? This might be a stupid question.
Thankyou in advance for any help you can provide.
Hey, to answer your questions:
1) First any toxins on an assassin replace his normal poisoned attacks, so if you take manbane no poison. If your assassin attacks a T4 guy manbane does count the assassin as S5 and -2 armour save modifier.
2) No idea about this one, you may need to get an extra death hag and take the cauldron (+200pts), or maybe she can take it the same way a death hag can (+110pts), but i doubt its free. Either way Hellebron is wasted i think accompanying a cauldron, shes better of in the front ranks somewhere butchering enemies.
3) I think it just negates the enemies bonus, but the witch elf unit loses their rank bonus.
Hope that helps
Okay then, thankyou, that did help. You're right I probably shouldn't put Hellebron at a cauldron anyway.
the way I read it, if you have a Cauldron then Helleborn can be assigned to it but does not supplant the hag already there.
Hellebron on a Cauldron has the potential to be very, very nasty. Under 8th ed. you get a 7W T10 unit with LD10, Stubborn and a BSB re-roll if you take a BSB on it, which I plan to (Deat Hag with either Hydra Banner or Banner of Nagarythe, which then means unbreakable), a ridiculous amount of attacks, Hellebron then gains a 4+ ward and a 3+ ward vs spells. The trick to using it is that the opponent sees Hellebron on a CoB and thinks easy pickings, realises how nasty it can be, diverts all his attention on it, meaning the rest of the army (in my case Cult of Khaine army) has a sightly easier job and less shooting/magic to worry about. And if theres a second Cauldron you can buff Hellebron's one too, but that might be overkill. Using augment spells on it though, despite making even nastier, has the potential for wasted PD, because Hellebron's Amulet of Fire has it's effects in EACH magic phase, meaning theres a chance something like the Flaming Sword of Rhun can be dispelled after you've chucked several dice at it....
But all in all, the pros far outweigh the cons, plus it's one of the best ways for her to survive the actual battle.
I mention this is my "Khainite Army" thread.
"Should take you a while though because of your sloth like pace"
Click here and watch Gedderz try and cross the road
A very valid point, I did realise that con and, despite it being a large con, I feel it is outweighed by the benefits. There are really 3 reasons:
1) It drastically improves the survivability of Hellebron whilst also improving the survivability of the Cauldron, as the extra 3 wounds will keep it on the field for longer.
2)In conjunction with a Death Hag BSB, with Banner of Nagarythe, you get the following:
> A 12" radial area providing LD10, Stubborn, a BSB re-roll and +1 CR to all Khainite units.
>A 12" radial area providing LD10, a BSB re-roll and +1 CR to all other units.
> The Cauldron's usual benefits and an Unbreakable unit.
This makes the Cauldron the central point of your army, making it's presence on the battlefield felt as your surrounding units harder to break and more effective in combat or providing them with a 5+ ward.
3) Hellebron's personal Cauldron of Blood would make a great centrepiece for any army led by her....
At the end of the day, you are right, it is a large points sink (around 700 pts-ish), however, even if ignored by the opponent it still will make it's presence felt on the battlefield, although the main reason I would take it is to have Hellebron survive a battle without being sniped by magic/shooting. Each to their own though.
Also forgot to add - there are bigger and riskier points sinks out there....dragon mounted characters and lords come to mind...
please correct me if I am wrong, but the CoB is a war machine and therefore with or without Hellebron cannot march or charge. I don't see how that is an effective combat unit.
you are 100% right, although the point is not to be a comabt unit, but to keep hellebron alive, distract the opponent by letting them think it's an easy target, and to act as a central point of your army, eg with bsb w/ bon you end up with a 12" zone where ur troops gain substantial bonus' in addition to the cauldrons blessings.