Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
So now that we've got 8th in our grubby little hands, lets review some of our toys and how thing may change for them.
Corsairs w/ hand bows. Suddenly they don't look all that lame. 20 corsairs, 10 across and 2 deep casually stroll up to any unit thats annoying you, shoot them in the face twice with both ranks from 3" away. Who cares if they charge you, you shoot them in the face again, and then you will probably get to strike first due to elfy initiative! Plus, as they walk forward, they can effectively screen the rest of your army with their cloaks and armor. Consider following up with a nice stabby unit of...
Witch Elves. Fragile, but very killy. Run them in a nice wide unit and you can get a bucket of poisonous attacks out of them. If they DO get shot at, who cares? Frenzy means never running away from missile fire.
Executioners. Step up means that you will get to hit back with those str 6 attacks. Very nice.
What do you all think of these old no-show units? Are there any others that we need to look at in a new light?
Good point on the Corsairs, that was one that I didn't think of.
Witches didn't really gain much imo. I still have a hard time using them.
Executioners... now this unit might be a new favorite for me. I just made a list witha horde Exe. unit 30 strong. You will get all 30 attacks with killing blow... nasty. I also dropped in a BSB with the ASF banner so they are fighting at their high Initiative.
Next new favorite combo is a horde unit of 40 Warriors with a Cauldron of Blood. This tops the Executioner unit with 40 Killing Blow attacks!
How will you get all 30 attacks with killing blow? First off, only a fool will pit a horde unit against your horde of executioners, so you will be limited to usually 7 wide (in 3 ranks though) so that is 21 attack. Then you have to weather a round of attacks which should kill off most if not all of your back rank (t3 5+ dies to everything in this edition, even empire) So that is 14 attacks. Still scary... but consider your chances of a foot unit of that obvious deadliness actually making it to combat intact when it is a both a points sink and really easy to kill with shooting... I just don't see it against competent opposition.
As for the warriors, hordes is not a good formation. Smart players are just going to flank that, and all those supporting attacks do nothing. Also most players are going to not run horde units, so that 40 attacks is wishful thinking (especially since your opponent has to be stupid enough to charge a horde when it has KB blessing already on it)
OP: I always ran witches before. When they worked, they tore through the enemy like nothing else. When they didn't, I didn't care much since I only spent like 150 on them. Now with the changes to combat order and initiative, they got a whole lot scarier. The down side is unless they are fighting a small unit, they will get hit back. The good side is they generally don't care, since they kill enough R&F to win anyways (with ranks being counted after combat, a nice little boost)
As for corsairs: handbows as an option got a bunch better with firing in 2 ranks. Still won't run them 10 wide, as its not easy to position in the tight quarters they should be in, but 2x5 is viable since you get all your shots. A 100 points for 20 shots, followed by 20 more stand and shoot shots isn't a bad distraction. Their CC ability is a bit of a joke, since S3, T3, and 5+ in cc is not going to get the job done even with hatred.
Personally I still won't run corsairs, since I don't really need that type of unit, but they are more viable for sure (though extra hand weapons, even with frenzy banner still don't get the job done, S3 really is underwhelming. Witches are better in this role)
Last edited by notabot187; July 15th, 2010 at 13:54.
Don't have to be so particular. I was just pointing out that a unit of 30 executioners could get all of it's attacks and it would be devastating... relax.
Yea, you can say that large units are going to get shot up or flanked.... anything you field this can happen to. If you're are foolish enough to leave your flanks open on big units then yes, you're going to be vulnerable to this. If my huge unit is being shot at, then my hydra, Black guard, CoK, shades are able to come through in smaller unit sizes without worry of panic from non template shooting. Beef these elite units up with banners and characters.
Frankly I was struggling to justify keeping my corsair unit in this edition. Notabot is spot on about their melee ability just not cutting it, not for their point cost.
I like the Corsair with Handbow strategy Lil Tweaker. Maybe even throw in an assassin with Rending Stars ? Also give him mandbane & 2 hand weaps and thats 4 attacks hitting and wounding on 3's with re-rolls to hit.. nasty little surprise on top of the stand and shoot when they get charged.
Is an assassin counted as 'revealed' when he uses stars ?
My only problem is using old metal Corsairs, hence no handbows for 'what you see is what you get' but it should be fine for friendlies.
I dont think 20 is a good number for this strat. Too much of a point sink to be a 'distraction'. But I might try a unit of 12, 6x2 with no command.
Last edited by Manu_Forti; July 16th, 2010 at 01:55.
Dark Elves - Game #28 vs High Elves: Draw
W L D
21 5 5
The only time you can reveal an assassin is during the start of turn, and during CC phase. So no stand and shoot reveals.
And yes, 20 is too many for this strategy. The most you should try is 14 (7 wide) and even then its probably too much. 2x5 is what I would run, if I ran them at all.
I've been running 6x2 Handbow Corsais for over a year already. They're excellent but use them as bait, not a distraction. There's no better choice for drawing frenzied units into an ambush and the handbows kind of force non-frenzied units to do it as well, since the alternative is being blocked off and pestered with light shooting.Originally Posted by Manu_Forti
I also run 2x10 Crossbowmen units with full command and shields. Maybe other people will catch on to this unit, too, now that they "don't have wasted potential". Although the shield+HW bonus does appear to have vanished.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
Yea, I'm a BIG fan of x-bows with shields. They can throw out a LOT of shots and wont go away until you throw some real units at them. I'm curious how they will work now that the board & sword rules have changed. What have you experienced?
I also agree that the cauldron just go a WHOLE lot cooler.
Any thoughts on bigger units of cold one Knights? say 10 with full command? The banner of discipline adding +1 to LD and the BSB allowing re-rolls minimizes the effect of stupidity, or are our infantry options just better?