Do Dark Elves inherently suck the fun from games? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member 1337Malekith's Avatar
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    Do Dark Elves inherently suck the fun from games?

    I played a game earlier today against Dwarfs, and found it rather boring.

    Why you ask? (and I know you are)

    Because he completely scooped me by turn 4.

    This isn't a why do I suck so bad thread and how Dwarfs should get nerfed, but rather to ask some questions and see what you guys have to say. I've been playing Dark Elves since 5th ed. before they became the so called monster they are now, and feel like I'm being stereotyped as a competitive player (I do enjoy tournament play, don't get me wrong, but 40k 'Ard Boyz semi-finals showed me what Warhammer shouldn't be).

    Now, I know Dark Elves are one of the best armies in the game currently, but should I be punished for playing them?

    Is it even possible for Dark Elves to have a friendly pick-up game anymore?

    When you say you are playing Dark Elves do people automatically assume you are playing an 'Ard Boyz/Comp list?

    How do you confront people who abuse* the new rules, look for a quick win, and gloat about a win, etc... when you take a friendly list?

    So post your opinions on how people stereotype the Dark Elves.


    *Abuse~ Example: "You have how many of what!"

    Last edited by 1337Malekith; July 19th, 2010 at 11:13.
    Darks Elves 6000ptsWood Elves 500pts (WIP)
    Imperial Guard 5000pts
    http://mr-godz.mybrute.com

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  3. #2
    Son of LO Manu_Forti's Avatar
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    If anything it's Dwarf gun-lines that make the game boring :p

    I dont get any grief from people about Dark Elves. Personally I've never seen DE as a power-house army that needed a nerf. I played them in their previous edition when they were horribly under-powered and still had reasonable success with them.
    Sure they might be easier to play decently with now, but I think they still require skill to play WELL.

    If you do a decent job of painting and play with a good attitude, most people shouldnt have a problem.
    The definition of 'friendly' isn't deliberately taking an uncompetetive army because it's fun. You have every right to use a decent list, it's still a friendly game as long as you're not a rules lawyer douche bag

    Cheers
    Dark Elves - Game #28 vs High Elves: Draw
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  4. #3
    Junior Member 8people's Avatar
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    I've had a few comments from people who do not know me or my playstyle at all.

    One of my gaming group is a BRUTAL Dark Elves player... has been playing decades, a tournament player, his favourite army, a strong tactician and a beard to rival santa. He is dangerous. Simple as. In any edition.

    I've had people badmouth that I write disgusting lists and if I start to lose I break or bend rules to suit me... er... I was rather upset at that accusation (which was made in the shop where my boyfriend used to work as well, so he wasn't too pleased either.)

    The accusation was made by a new hobbyist it turned out. There were about five girls who regularly turned up at that GW and two of them prided themselves in being 'the only girl gamer in the area' this was one of them, who had come in looking for a game and I was paired up to play her. Now, I hadn't come down to play a game, just to paint, so all I had with me were core units (spearmen and crossbowmen) and one sorceress. She had her Ogres. Played 500 points and I had a LOT of luck against her despite the fact I wasn't really in all that mood for a game. Ended up trouncing her soundly, her last unit breaking and fleeing because she charged a unit of crossbowmen... and lost... because I had full command in the unit. The musician broke the tie. To which her boyfriend exclaimed "Nobody takes a full command in archers!" despite the fully modelled command stood there in the middle of the unit. (I have also mentioned elsewhere, I tend to obsessively take FC if I can.) This was the first game, ever, she had lost. She sulked about it while her boyfriend then challenged me to a game. Whereupon he won his first game ever (can you guess who they had been playing up until this point?), he was also very confused as I was, what was described by people in the shop 'a good sport' I didn't sulk when units got wiped out and I was killed in a variety of humerous and undoubtedly painful ways by short men with large axes. Nor did I complain when my sorceress decided to self destruct, it was, for all intents and purposes, a fun game - even if I had already used up all of my luck previously.

    Thus the only times I've been referred to as a dirty dark elf player have been from a sulking wench and a man who doesn't believe fluff can be applied to strong armies. ("No, fluffy armies are low tier. Dark elves are top tier!")
    Fantasy: Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Beastmen and Tomb Kings.
    40k: Tyranids
    LotR: Misty Mountains and Rohan

  5. #4
    Member 1337Malekith's Avatar
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    Thank you guys for your replies

    Manu how did you know it was a gun line...well artillery line Dwarf army.
    and I'm on the same boat as you and do not see the Dark Elves as highly as others do (except for the Hydra).

    and to 8people yeah there are some brutal players out their, but if I'm going to go against one I feel it would be generous to tell me hes packing heat before hand. Now don't get me wrong, my friendly lists are competitive, just not over the top.

    And of course that girls boyfriend will want to challenge you after winning, he has to win back their honor or something. Nothing wrong with full command in archers anymore, cheap banners for missions, free reform and shoot, and a guy who can absorb damage and hit the broad side of the barn with the repeater crossbow. (planning on going full command Glade Guard in my Wood Elves)

    Also sportsmanship is a hit or miss with some people I've noticed. Seems like an either you have it or don't quality.

    I had another idea pop into my brain this morning so feel free to reply.

    The Dark Elves concept is deceiving the opponent, making a strong flank look weak, and a weak middle look strong for example, but do you ever find your attitude change to becoming very secretive with your plan, dodging questions by your opponent about how many and where you assassins are? or if you brought any at all? or trying to give hints where he could be when he really isn't where you say he is?

    I'm a Sociology major and I find all this very interesting so keep the comments coming boys and girls
    Darks Elves 6000ptsWood Elves 500pts (WIP)
    Imperial Guard 5000pts
    http://mr-godz.mybrute.com

  6. #5
    Son of LO Manu_Forti's Avatar
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    Manu how did you know it was a gun line...well artillery line Dwarf army.
    Aren't they all? ^^

    Also sportsmanship is a hit or miss with some people I've noticed. Seems like an either you have it or don't quality.
    Agree. Some also tend to have it when they're winning but then it starts to melt away if things go badly.. like using Dispel scrolls they dont really have, etc..

    The Dark Elves concept is deceiving the opponent, making a strong flank look weak, and a weak middle look strong for example, but do you ever find your attitude change to becoming very secretive with your plan, dodging questions by your opponent about how many and where you assassins are? or if you brought any at all? or trying to give hints where he could be when he really isn't where you say he is?
    I think that's all part & parcel of playing DE. Especially for players who started them before the current edition. We basically had to be tricksy & deceitful to pull off a win with our 'glass pea-shooter' army. At least now we are a 'glass cannon' like we are meant to be, but all this things you mentioned are still hall-marks of good players, not necessarily over-competitive players.
    In my opinion they dont have the right to ask where my assassins are. They will know when he pops out and stabs them in the spleen
    Dark Elves - Game #28 vs High Elves: Draw
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  7. #6
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    When it comes to powergaming, it really isn't sufficient to play a high-level army; usually it's a high-level army with a very specific build. If you're not fielding two Hydras and an ASF Blackguard unit, for example, then you probably aren't pushing the Druchii power curve as much as some might say. Any way, it's worth pointing out to your accusers.

    Another thought is that this sort of perception is to be expected with a glass-dagger army. If we pull off our tricks then Dark Elves sure look broken, and yet the battles in which we're an inch short and a miscast too many tend to be forgotten.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

  8. #7
    Member 1337Malekith's Avatar
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    I've been trying out new things with my Dark Elves lately, mainly bringing back my witchelves and executioners and trying a Khainite list, and seeing how 8th ed. has affected our less than used models. On the other hand my opponents lately are just making lists trying to break the game and in my opinion not trying to enjoy the fresh new rule set to bring out some less than used models from their rule book. This I feel is making the game as a whole less enjoyable when I have friends trying to build 10 chariot High Elf + Teclis lists or stuffing 3 of each artillery piece they have into a list.

    On the other hand I move across state again in 2 weeks where my group there does enjoy the "spirit" and "fluff" aspect of the game. I think it might just be a gaming group mindset rather than a perceived stereotype.
    Darks Elves 6000ptsWood Elves 500pts (WIP)
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1337Malekith View Post
    The Dark Elves concept is deceiving the opponent, making a strong flank look weak, and a weak middle look strong for example, but do you ever find your attitude change to becoming very secretive with your plan, dodging questions by your opponent about how many and where you assassins are? or if you brought any at all? or trying to give hints where he could be when he really isn't where you say he is?
    Guilty as charged. I came from the old ed. of DE for a while, so you kind of had too... Add on to that, that I'm just secretive about that stuff and love to play a good mind game. Hell my list is based off of everything being roughly equal in value and destructive capacity. If you take one thing out, the rest'll do the same thing anyway. One of my favorite tricks is hyping up a unit I think the other guy might freak out over. Make them obsess over something and overcommit resources to keel it vith fire. Then all the other stuff hits and they're sitting at the end of the game wondering what happened even though they killed my "unit of doom". I think I'm a pretty good sport, but the mindf*** aspect of the game is too much fun to look over for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337Malekith View Post
    I've been trying out new things with my Dark Elves lately, mainly bringing back my witchelves and executioners and trying a Khainite list, and seeing how 8th ed. has affected our less than used models. On the other hand my opponents lately are just making lists trying to break the game and in my opinion not trying to enjoy the fresh new rule set to bring out some less than used models from their rule book. This I feel is making the game as a whole less enjoyable when I have friends trying to build 10 chariot High Elf + Teclis lists or stuffing 3 of each artillery piece they have into a list.

    On the other hand I move across state again in 2 weeks where my group there does enjoy the "spirit" and "fluff" aspect of the game. I think it might just be a gaming group mindset rather than a perceived stereotype.
    I'm sorry but that gaming group sounds horrible to play with. One of the guys at my store is trying out a 50 man unit of longbeard rangers with throwing axes and then like 3 units of 20 miners in support, but he isn't doing it to break the game, he's doing it to test out the edition and see if he can have a goofy as hell army. I'd hate to have people lose sight of having fun with the game.

  10. #9
    Junior Member 8people's Avatar
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    I tend to find I get very in the mood with my armies. Partner does too.

    You should have seen him when he started to collect Skaven. He's lucky it was at least a little cute

    I play pnp RPGs and CRPGs a lot, more often than not filling out detail in my mind as I go along which kind of sticks when writing army lists or playing a battle as well. Could probably fill out flufftastic battle reports if I had the inclination. Might try it for the campaign thing coming up.

    Which found out yesterday I've got a week to write up, buy, assemble and paint an army for, oops...
    Fantasy: Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Beastmen and Tomb Kings.
    40k: Tyranids
    LotR: Misty Mountains and Rohan

  11. #10
    Member 1337Malekith's Avatar
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    I think I'll write up a campaign for fantasy in hopes to get people in the mood for fluff type matches instead of dinning on cheese.

    I would assume it takes a nudge to get people into a certain mindset of Warhammer. Starting at small 500pt warbands and forcing people to add on instead of replacing units. I use the word force lightly, just something to get people attached to using certain units, trying something new, and just trying to have a good time.

    Well I just found something to occupy me for the night.


    I got so worked up about the idea that I just wrote up a rough draft!

    The idea is to set the stage around your characters and their armies and how their armies build strength to reach the final legendary objective of completely annihilating your enemies city, village, or what ever.

    First round
    500pt armies: No rare choices, 25% Heros, 25% min core, 50% Special

    Second round
    1000pt armies: Normal rules, BUT you have to use the same units as in your 500pt army (you can add stuff to them, just not taking things away)

    Third round
    2000pt armies: Normal rules, BUT you have to use the same units as in your 1000pt army (you can add stuff to them, just not taking things away)
    - Hero Level Characters may be upgraded to Lord versions if points permit

    Fourth round
    Legendary battle type game: Normal rules, BUT you have to use the same units as in your 2000pt army (you can add stuff to them, just not taking things away)
    - Hero Level Characters may be upgraded to Lord versions if points permit
    - Only ONE special character from your army has heard your call to war, and may join your army with normal restrictions.

    Just an idea to change the pace of games in my area and show people the other side of warhammer
    Last edited by 1337Malekith; July 21st, 2010 at 00:38.
    Darks Elves 6000ptsWood Elves 500pts (WIP)
    Imperial Guard 5000pts
    http://mr-godz.mybrute.com

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