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Hi, I'm looking at running a unit of execs to help take out some of my friends' knights (they both play empire and I hate that 1+ save). Also the models look really cool and I wouldn't mind using them in a game.
I was thinking of running them with a BSB in the unit carrying the ASF banner...then I read the Khainite rule, which describes how only a "Khainite" character can join a Khainite unit.
Is there any way around this? As using a Hag BSB in a unit of executioners seems like a recipe for disaster. I was just curious to see if there was some other way I could negate the "always strikes last rule" and was wondering if there was some item or banner or spell or something I'd overlooked to make the execs strike in initiative order, thereby making them killing machines.
Otherwise I'd just have to bite the bullet, try and tie his knights up with some spears then hit'em with the execs while the knights are standing still.
Thanks in advance!
Nope. Fortunately, Frenzied isn't the drawback it once was--the Hag can take a leadership test to not be baited. The banner is the only way to give ASF to a Druchii unit.Originally Posted by bkde
I would recommend using War Hydras and the Lore of Metal to counter heavy armor. If you want to keep with the Executioners then pair them up with a Cauldron of Blood--it will go a long way towards helping the Execs put down the hard targets. Of course, that means you'd have two hero slots dedicated to Hags in your list....
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
The real problem a hag with the bsb has is dying. T3 and no saves = fail to everything.
Also, removed from the back rules makes it so you're going to get hit back no matter what. The fact that you have hatred means you will get to re-roll for at least one round no matter what. I'd say the benefit of ASF is not worth the points of the bearer in a unit of executioners.
You're better off going with boyz before toyz. As the orkz seem to say:
Rather than investing tons of points in a BSB, I'd consider just making my executioners a 10x3 horde formation. (30 mans strong) Ideally, i'd like two of those, and one bsb hag on a cauldron.
I think that really plays to the advantage Executioners have over Sword Masters. They're cheap for elves. Which means you can take alot. Your executioners have to lose quite a few models before their damage potential is reduced. That and being stubborn will make them nasty to grind through. Also, they'll have the same number of attacks as a unit of swordmasters. (concievably more if you use the cauldron's ability on them.) Not much short of Chosen of Chaos will be able to take that formation on the front.
Hydra's will be good for guarding the flanks. Alternatively, Spearman Hordes to fill out your core.
That'll save you a couple hundred points to use on other stuffs. Like magic. (think SM + Lore of shadows.)
Yep, I wasn't so worried about frenzy as much as I was about her dying. As Gnomish pointed out, with step-up and the Hag lack of armour she would get chopped up into bite sized little pieces.Frenzied isn't the drawback it once was
I think the best way to run execs would probably be in conjunction with a Cauldron. Pop the ward save on the execs so they last a little longer as a 5+ armour save really isn't all that great. I mostly play against a knight heavy Empire army (1+ saves...stupid full plate armour), Ogres (which I made the mistake of throwing a unit of BG against Ironguts...bad idea).
Besides the Hydra I really have nothing to counter high toughness or high armour save opponents, besides the lore of metal (but dark is just sooo good). I do have two RBT's in my collection, but between the Hydra or the Reaper's I'll take the Hydra. Mostly cuz the Hydra makes a perfect artillery magnet, and if the artillery is focused on the Hydra, it's not shooting at the rest of army.
I'm thinking spears would be handy for tying stuff up (potentially with an assassin thrown in, who suffers the same issues the hag does and for the price of an assassin + upgrades I can get another unit of 20 spears), then rock the execs as a form of shock infantry, run 'em in the flank (don't get supporting attacks on the flank, and if hitting a unit of knights two ranks deep only the two knights on the side get to fight) then watch the execs chop things up.
Now the next job is to try and find a COB and another 10 execs for cheap, as $110 retail is wayyy to steep for 14 models (even if one of them is a big statue with a pot).What's "SM" and why Lore of Shadows? Just curious. Dark or Death seem more fun ha.think SM + Lore of shadows
Dark is fun, but only really having one de-buff spell annoys me a bit (especially going against a high elf mage with Loremaster's Cloak or something similar).
Hmm, I'll have to give shadow a try in my next game. S8 spears sounds incredibly tempting...
And although dark lacks the de-buff, I really enjoy the direct damage aspects. Soul-Stealer and Bladewind are both relatively effective against t3 hordes, especially as the ability to pump up the sorceress's wounds (through use of soul-stealer) goes a long way to protecting her from miscasts, of which I tend to roll a lot...
I still say 30 man blocks. Or at least unit size fourteen. Reason being, if you take them in unit size 10 they're not optimized in a frontage of 7 to maximize attacks, they don't have enough wounds to stick around for more than a round of combat, and they won't be able to break an enemy in the first turn or so because of steadfast rules.
It's basically 120ish free points for the enemy. Unless you take a crap ton of units and manage to get some sick multiple combats. But even then, like I said, I'd do at least unit size 14.
Last edited by Gnomish.Id; September 30th, 2010 at 02:32.
Yep, I think 21 would be the minimum, makes sure they still get supporting attacks even when down a rank. Fielding them in 30 (6x5) would be ideal, I just don't have 30 yet. And the horde size of 3x10 I think would be too large a frontage.I still say 30 man blocks. Or at least unit size fourteenAh, I see, you're the enemy haha. Quick question about Sword Masters, as I may be playing a HE army sometime in the next few weeks. They're two attacks, heavy armour, Ld..9? Always Strike First with great weapons? Or do they strike in initiative order, i.e. Speed of Asuryan (ASF) + Great Weapons (ASL) = Strike in Initiative.I play High Elves and Wood Elves. SM = Sword Masters of Hoath
Moral of the story? Don't let them get close to you....ever. They are still only T3 and Heavy Armor isn't that great. Our Repeater Crossbows work fairly well against them.
What he said. Sword masters will ASF and almost always get to re-roll to hit.
As for the shooty solutions, Sword Masters should be, and usually are, fielded in High Elven lists that can take a lore of magic to keep them alive. A La Teclis with the Lore of Life.
But yeah. I never field my swordmasters in a lower frontage than 7. But, the fact that they have 2 attacks across the front is a large reason for that. Perhaps it's less essential with Executioners.
I really feel that to stand up to black guard as a special choice, the executioners need to fighting in that third rank though. The advantages of the black guard are that they have 2 attacks, easily gain armor piercing, are naturally stubborn, will always re-roll to hit, and will almost always strike first. The advantage of executioners is killing blow, significantly higher strength, and better wound to attack efficiency. Which, in my opinion, is huge.
If you look at it like this, unlike sword masters and black guard, executioners fight with full combat potential while making supporting attacks, while other elven troops fight at only 1/2 combat potential. Which means as you increase the number of wounds in a unit you do not decrease the actual combat potential of that unit greatly, so long as the back ranks are able to fight. That is an important consideration when determining whether to take two units of 15-21 or a single horde.
Though, for certain, long frontages are a liability. However, with horde rules benefiting other armies, I believe they will become standard.
Btw, I <3 Dark Elves. I have had the codex since they came out, and have even proxied some army lists. I just don't have the money to collect them yet.
Last edited by Gnomish.Id; September 30th, 2010 at 06:52.