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Hi there, I'm new to this forum and new to the wonderful world of dark elves, I've only been playing the game for about a year or so and my initial foray was with the bretonnian army,
Myself and my friends all started this game together as a way to escape the wives on a friday night, Have a smoke order takeout and play games against each other, not really caring who wins or loses.
Our initial armies were Brets HE, WoC, Lizardmen and vampire counts, now one friend has stayed the path and still plays to have fun, we select armies that are roughly equal in strength all across the board, and our games are really good fun with games staying in the balance untill the later stages, and usually freak magic or war machine rolls playing a big deciding force.
My Other friend claims to still play to have fun, but has moved on to warriors of chaos and seems to always bring the same army to the table top, he never plays without the stubborn banner and his army is mostly made up of heavilly armoured behemoths waltzing straight across the field in a large line, and pummelling everything in his path, with seemingly frenzied always strike first hatred on every unit,(unless I try to bait then the frenzy magically vanishes) his favourite trick is to pepper the flanks with all his lords mounted on discs, and juggernauts and he never takes anything different, no Fast cav,
no weak units (except the one marauder unit he got in the bat box) no dogs no nothing that makes it fun to play against, just a seemingly impenetrable wall that does nothing else but march forward and eat us.
He loves to win, he wont come out and say this, but after knowing him for well over 15 years I know lol
trouble is, in our little group of buds, its getting harder and harder to want to play him, nothing seems to work as he is also a very very good tactician, making sure that flank attacks are almost impossible to pull of.
We dont want to fall out with this friend but playing him is now becoming dull, seriously dull, my Vampire friend has already stopped turning up most weeks as playing said warriors of chaos we are always forced to write up a power army list and hold on tight for the ride, which is unfair as the initial point of setting up the game was to have fun fluffy armies that were a bit crazy and allowed units to be taked for their look/fun factor rather than their stats.
Any ideas on how to solve this problem? Is it a problem even? are we being anal I dont know?? I'd welcome some advice here even if its to just tell me to grow a set of balls and stop whinging
I differ slightly in mentality here. I like playing against hard lists, I want to play against strong lists and good generals. I find the challenge of trying to beat a powerful army with a good general very, very appealing and a lot of fun. I usually play 40k, but I have the same mentality there. Why should I lower my skill level and army quality when I can help other learn how to build lists properly and and learn to play them very well? I'd rather get others up to a high level so that games get challenging and fun.
That being said, the guy your playing with looks like he's in it just to "club baby seals" rather than play challenging games. In all honesty heavy-armored WoC isn't really all that competitive and as a note to the rest of the group, it isn't very difficult to make a fluffy list and make it work well. As long as you know the strength and weaknesses, ins and outs, you can take all of that into account and make a weaker army list very competitive.
What are you running in your army at the moment?
well for one if the everyone in your group plays soft lists and this guy brings a hard list why cant u just tell him that your not gonna play him .i mean whats he gonna do then he wont have any opponents so it will be change or i quess you dont get to play thats what id say.but if your playing dark elves u should make a list with a lvl 4 with metal and a lvl 2 with metal that should mess him up quite a bit. take 2hydras bolt throwers are at -2 armour save on volley so thats a good option remeber woc dont have much shooting other than that damn hell cannon but u could kill it with bolt throwers single shot.use at least 2 blocks of crossbowmen. u want to get his blocks wittled down b4 u get into combat.use your dark riders to run all around his big blocks since he has no hounds or horsemen, black gaurd banner of murder /crimson death on the champ can do some nice damage u could give them ASF banner instead.COK can be good, there stupid yes, but if u have bsb with or near them they get rerolls on leadership9 or 10 if u have a fighty dreadlord nearby.plus stupid means they are ITP also so cok are pretty decent now.str6 on the charge can get though those armour saves.also charge in with multiple units though.preferably a block of spear wars,and either coks/or hydras.but lore of metal will piss him off big time and darkelves can easily get a ton of dice to blast though dispells.but yea just make a really nasty list and practice with it.he should lose at least half of the time.oh yea i forgot about the cauldron and executioners in 8th are nice ,they will be stubborn 8or 9/10 if master/dreadlord are nearby and reroll with a bsb,and the bsb can be with the cauldron with manbane nasty,toss extra attack on the executioners have um 6wide maybe 18-24 strong thats 13str6 attacks or 19 with extra attack buff from cauldron and they have killing blow!! plus the cauldron can give killing blow to units making even a unit of warriors nasty for chaos.so basically dark elves have plenty of high strength options to deal with high armour stuff so dont let this guy push u around just stay out of combats u dont need to be in like chosen and big blocks of frenzied warriors.heres a couple dreadlord builds
dreadlord:armour of darkness,pendant of khaleth,crimson death thats 4 str6 hatred attacks and this guy has 1+ armour save and one of the best ward saves in the game this guy will never die unless u roll incredibly bad this guy costs 225 pretty cheap also u can give him the other tricksters shard this will deny any of his characters ward saves when u fight them it only cost 15points and u have that left from his 100point alotment
dreadlord:hydra blade,potion of strength,pendant of khaleth,shield,HA,SDC 255 this guy has 5-7attacks a turn str4 u can pop the potion to fight characters with str 7 3+ armour save 2+against shooting and the ward save so hes still got alot of survivabilty plus can kill alot of rank and file troops
hope all this helps good luck
Last edited by affliction69; October 12th, 2010 at 12:38.
That is one scary block of text.
Punctuation, proper grammar, and spaces between paragraphs please?
Last edited by Lordsoth3; October 12th, 2010 at 20:57.
If you don't spend time learning to play against good players and good lists then you will consistently be beaten by them. If he is a super-competitive player you can appeal to his sense of experimentation and tell him that he can play against you as a chance to test out new units on a meatbag instead of theorycrafting. If he is super-competitive enough then don't feel bad if he still beats you with non-competitive lists.
My opinion is to take fluffier lists to fun games and take the cheesiest power-gaming lists to leagues and tourneys.
League Stats: Orks 4W-1L-1T, CSM 4W-2L-0T, Dark Eldar 10W-6L-4T, Tau 3W-1L-1T, Blood Angels 4W-1L-1T, Imperial Guard 2W-1L-0T
Tourney Stats: Blood Angels 6W-0L-0T, Dark Eldar 2W-1L-0T
I gigantic block of spear men, 2-3 10man units of crossbows. HYDRAS. few bolt throwers.
Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
Chaos Daemons -Fate Crusher- 3500 Points
Grey knights - 1000 Points
I agree with the block of text guy up above. Bolt throwers don't allow armour saves when fired single shot, if you can bait one of his knights and smoke it in the flank that'll kill a few of them.
Lvl 4 Sorc with lore of metal, give her the sac dagger and toss her in with a unit of cheap spears, and the pendant of khaeleth to protect her from blowing herself to smithareens. Then just rack on the dice (you're rolling for IF, if she miscasts then the PoK will hopefully keep her safe). Take two level 2's for your hero points, both with metal, give one the tome of furion, maybe a focus familiar or +1 powerdice cloak on the other one. Then nuke him. Lore of metal signature spell is excellent for killing knights or anything else heavy armoured.
If you want a simple fix house rule a point change, lets say every weekend you need to change 500 points out of your list. Make sure they understand no recycled characters and no same banners on the usual units.
Id try suggesting a campaign... from what iv heard most of his units are pretty costly, as all chaos deathstars are. start small, mabey even use the map thingy GW sell. chart the rise to power of some home-brew characters. i find it fun giving them personalities and gearing them up to match thier personalities. start small, and build up a smaller list, as you would in a real campeign. that way it would encourage him to keep the small units he started with, that dont have the spare points to become overpowered.
this should add the "fluff" you are looking for, and mabey even start some interesting vendettas between characters, for example if his lord has a hatred of your lord he may attack your lord rather than munch your units, or issue a challenge where he wouldnt do otherwise.
it may even give you an advantage, as we all know how backstabby and political dark elves can be, so use the character history to your advantage. hide your true agenda ect. just a suggestion