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  1. #1
    Senior Member Glavas's Avatar
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    Dark elf questions!

    Basically, I want to make a melee oriented DE army with little to no magic. Aiming for 2250 points.

    Is it possible to make an army along the lines off

    Lord
    Dragon/manticore

    Master BSB

    Sorceress

    Sorceress

    3 x 35 spear blocks with full commands

    Large amount of cold one cav

    2 x hydra?

    All in all, I want the most basic hammer and anvil possible and really love the reptilian style of the DE.

    I'll expand on this a bit later, have somewhere to be at the moment. I will come up with an actual list.

    This is for competitive play (I've not LM for fun ) and I'm not familar enough with the new edition to gauge whether this is viable.

    Cheers



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Ravenblade's Avatar
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    It is possible, although it might struggle for competitiveness. A Dreadlord on Dragon clocks in at about 500+pts including magic items so not the best choice for 2250pts, whereas the Manticore is viable. A lot of people would probably advise against taking it (I'd say go for it).

    Three 35-man blocks, to some, may seem excessive, but considering the rest of the army is Knights and Hydras its fair enough. Solid and cheap. Best way to run them would be in "Slavetrain Formation", ranks of 5 wide by 6 deep. Stick the Warbanner on one unit and they'll stick around 90% of the time with +4 SCR.

    Sadly, the days of massive units of Knights running down everything are gone (for now). The optimum unit size for Cold One Knights is generally 7, deployed in 1 rank. That means the whole unit can attack anything with a frontage of 5 or wider. Units bigger than 7 tend to suffer the fate of "Cannonball Magnets", although you might get away with that having 3 huge blocks of Spearmen and 3 monsters....
    Give at least 1 unit the Ranger Standard, cavalry charging through terrain is a) Priceless and b) effective. The Banner of Murder and the Standard of Hag Graef are best kept away from Cold One Knights, as they don't need ASF being I6 and usually charging (if you're not charging you're doing something wrong) and being S6 they don't need an extra -1 to their attacks. The Standard of Swiftness and the Standard of Discipline are two other banners that are great for Cold One Knights, the former giving them an extra +1 movement and the latter giving them +1 Ld (Stupidity tests on Ld10). They're still best for flanking though...

    2 Hydras.....what more can I say?

    As for magic, to be competitive you'd need at least 2 Lvl 2s. Seal of Ghrond and Tome of Furion on one, Dispel scroll on the other, and you've got 2 (relatively) cheap Sorceress' giving you a Dispel Scroll, a Dispel Dice and 5 spells (not including Power of Darkness). As for the BSB, putting him in the Knights may seem tempting but putting him in a block of Spearmen would be better. Doesn't really need a Banner either, Ring of Darkness would be good enough. In larger games the Banner of Nagarythe would cause problems (3 Anvils close together, one of which is Unbreakable and all getting Ld re-rolls and +1 CR).

    Like I said, it may struggle to be competitive (as in Tournament competitive) but it could also be extremely effective. It certainly has enough bodies to soak up plenty of firepower, as well as tough choices for Warmachines (big scary monsters/cavalry or loads of ranks of squishy elves?). I myself was planning to run something a tiny bit similar in the future (2-3 35s, a unit of 60 and 8 Bolt Throwers) just as a fun experiment.

    Go for it mate, give it a go and see how it fairs.

    Just had a thought...you might struggle to fit it into 2250pts.
    Last edited by Ravenblade; May 24th, 2011 at 19:19. Reason: Stupid Smilies
    Fantasy - Dark Elves, Warriors of Chaos \/ 40K - Word BearersChaos Space Marines

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Karrain's Avatar
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    If you're going all-out competetive then I'd definetly reccomend Nagrythe. Also Wailing Banner would be an interesting choice for a unit of Knights, although with all the Tomb Kings out there at the moment perhaps not the most competetive standard, even a gleaming pennant if you're really pushing the points.
    I'd probably reccomend either Shadow or Metal for your wizards...no-one likes 3+ save spearmen (or strength 8 spearmen).
    "Take their gold, burn their homes, kill their familes and enslave their souls. Show them no mercy...oh and could you post these letters while you're out?"
    -Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Glavas's Avatar
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    Thanks for your help!

    I had huge plans for this back in 7th, but I've got my LM and 3 40k armies and have been working 7 days a week for the last year and a bit so I've been a bit slow in the hobby department!

    This winter work is finally slowing down, I've got money to spend and plan on ordering the whole army direct from UK in one fell swoop, hence I need it decided before I order tomorrow arvo

    I'll come up with a draft list now, and I'll post it up as an edit. Thanks!


  6. #5
    Senior Member Glavas's Avatar
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    dreadlord
    manticore
    Armour of Eternal servitude
    Pendant of kaeleth
    Deathpiercer
    Shield
    Seadragon cloak

    444

    Master
    Heavy armour
    Banner of nagarythe
    Great weapon

    235

    Sorceress
    level 2
    Dispel scroll

    160

    Sorceress
    level 2
    Seal of ghrond
    Tome of furion

    180

    30 spearmen 195
    full command

    30 spearmen 195
    full command

    30 spearmen 195
    full command

    6 x Cold one cav
    musician

    172

    6 x cold one cav
    musician

    172
    War Hydra 175
    War Hydra 175

    That's 2298. So I'd have to cut down somewhere. Are corsairs worth considering? They seems very very punchy.

    What annoys me is I was going to run an all cav army, using loads of dark riders, but unfortunately it's not gonna be effective when anything i charge is going to be stubborn...

    If I stretched it to 2.5k, I could have a dragon. What do you reckon of the effectiveness of it as is? I really need to buy 8th rule book and start learning too!


  7. #6
    Senior Member Karrain's Avatar
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    Corsairs are very punchy, especially when frenzied (I take at least 20 with the Sea Serpent Standard as a rule). I'd consider getting the Cloak of Hag Graef and Caledor's Bane instead for your Dreadlord on the manticore-mounted dreadlord and a halberd instead of a great weapon on the master (that additional point of strength won't make soo much of a difference and it's 2 pts cheaper!).
    As I see it you've got 2 waves, the Manticore, Hydras and Knights in wave 1 and warriors in wave 2. Unfortunatley everything punchy is in wave 1 and I can envisage only half of them getting into combat and half again doing enough damage to make a difference. In retrospect perhaps Nagrythe isn't the best banner for this list, you're big units probably won't be in it's bubble and unbreakable warriors don't mean all that much.
    If you don't mind me saying you're looking at a very specific army and specifics don't generally turn out to be your level of competetive (I should know with my Thousand Sons army for 40K). If you don't mind veering slightly from your theme then I expect a similar competetive list could be made, but if you're adamant to stick to the mould you suggested in your first post then you'll have to sacrifice that razor-sharp game element.

    The rulebook is a must-have, all of those slight changes from 7th ed are quite surprising.
    "Take their gold, burn their homes, kill their familes and enslave their souls. Show them no mercy...oh and could you post these letters while you're out?"
    -Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Glavas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karrain View Post
    Corsairs are very punchy, especially when frenzied (I take at least 20 with the Sea Serpent Standard as a rule). I'd consider getting the Cloak of Hag Graef and Caledor's Bane instead for your Dreadlord on the manticore-mounted dreadlord and a halberd instead of a great weapon on the master (that additional point of strength won't make soo much of a difference and it's 2 pts cheaper!).
    As I see it you've got 2 waves, the Manticore, Hydras and Knights in wave 1 and warriors in wave 2. Unfortunatley everything punchy is in wave 1 and I can envisage only half of them getting into combat and half again doing enough damage to make a difference. In retrospect perhaps Nagrythe isn't the best banner for this list, you're big units probably won't be in it's bubble and unbreakable warriors don't mean all that much.
    If you don't mind me saying you're looking at a very specific army and specifics don't generally turn out to be your level of competetive (I should know with my Thousand Sons army for 40K). If you don't mind veering slightly from your theme then I expect a similar competetive list could be made, but if you're adamant to stick to the mould you suggested in your first post then you'll have to sacrifice that razor-sharp game element.

    The rulebook is a must-have, all of those slight changes from 7th ed are quite surprising.
    What would you suggest for a simliar theme? I've had 3 experience with DE, am clutching at straws!

    I've done specific, I've been playing mech dark eldar since before the new book


  9. #8
    Senior Member Ravenblade's Avatar
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    Should probably have added that I suggested the Banner of Nagarythe for larger games...maybe 3K, as it's quite a big investment for smaller games.

    The Armour of Eternal Servitude/Pendant of Khaeleth combo isn't as good as it used to be, as you can only take EITHER a Ward or a Regen save, not both. Plus halberds are better on BSBs as Great Weapons now Always Strike Last, regardless of charging (unless you're a High Elf).

    You really do need the 8th Edition rulebook, these slight changes actually make quite an impact on the game.

    Monsters have actually become better IMHO. They now get Thunderstomp (D6 Impact Hits that Always Strike Last) and Breath Weapons have had a rework too (can be used once per game, either Template in Shooting Phase or 2D6 hits in combat). So a Black Dragon can have a potential 24 attacks, 18 of which are randomised.

    Corsairs dish out S3 attacks by the bucketload, especially if Frenzied. Handbows are not be be underestimated either, although I prefer AHW (have 3x20, 2 with AHW, 1 with RH. The Slaver rule is great, making sure you run down your opponent 8/10 times. Chuck in Lokhir and the fun really begins.....
    Fantasy - Dark Elves, Warriors of Chaos \/ 40K - Word BearersChaos Space Marines

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