Unkillable Lord

[Vezzax]

Don't know if the following build is a well known build for Dark elf players, but looked through the army book and stumbled over an item build that I think is hard as nails. Would like to hear your opinion - is it too broken?

Dreadlord (277 points)
- Sea dragon cloak
- Heavy armour
- Soulrender
- Dragonhelm
- Crown of command
- Pendant of khaeleth
- Riding a Cold one

So basically you got a guy with 1+ armour save, reversed ward save, 2+ ward against flaming attacks, stubborn ld 10. Although he strikes last he's near unkillable and he hits like a truck with WS 7, hatred, strength 6, armour piercing, 4 magical attacks, plus cold one attack. Perfect for hunting monsters, killing characters or tying up expensive infantry units. The way I see it the only way you can kill him is through forcing him to take characteristics tests (like dwellers) or something that denies armour save and his reversed reward save (and both these things are pretty rare in my opinion). Lore of metal is not that effective either since he's got a 2+ ward against flaming attacks.

Avoid models with killing blow or the OP dwellers spell and he'll be able to survive an average of 10+ rounds of combat against almost any unit (try and do the math - he's got a very small base size so only a few models will be able to attack each round). With a BSB nearby he's unlikely to flee from combat with his LD 10 stubborn.

He's so cheap that you can even fit him in 1,500 point army lists. Thought about trying out a 1,500 point list with dual hydras, 40 warriors with shields (joined by a bsb), a small unit of CoK (the dreadlord can even get Look out sir! rolls then) and finally a sorceress with a small Repeater crossbowman bunker.

- Thank you

[Intrepid]

Can the Dragonhelm and Crown of Command be stacked? Don't have my book handy but it seems unlikely.

Otherwise, eh. You're just putting all your resources into a single model. Sometimes that works, sometimes you roll three 1's right away and have nothing left. I wouldn't be afraid to face him.

[Vezzax]

Bad rolls will quickly turn the tide of any unit, but I see what you mean about him being a single model with 3 wounds only But then again, you have to hit, wound, bypass armour saves and then the ward save, so odds are good

From what I can tell the dragonhelm and crown of command build is legit...
Soulrender (magic weapon)
Dragonhelm (magic armour)
Crown of command (enchanted item)
Pendant of khaeleth (talisman)

From a lore point of perspective it still makes sense (A crown is just a circlet and can be worn on top of a helmet)

You don't have to run him solo either. Just as fine to stick him with a unit of CoK - they become stubborn aswell then.

[Ravenblade]

Yeah, this is an overused build IMO..although it is one of our most effective.

I only tend to take this build (or a variant of it) in competitive games, I'll take other, more fun/ridiculous builds (although I have had fun with the Executioner's Axe Dreadlord in a tournie once).

[Dark Trainer]

Only wish cold one knights were stubborn too...would be nice to toss him in with them.

[Petrocco]

Meh, my vampire lord would kick his ass in a challenge : P
5 attacks at weapon skill 9 str 8 re-roll sucessful ward saves then he gets additional attack for every wound caused. Oh and ASF initiative 7.

[Vezzax]

There are counters to everything and yeah vampire lords are nasty. I don't know how many points that vampire lord comes at but this dreadlord is quite cheap coming at 277 pts (if he dies its not the end of the world as you will have plenty of points spend in other units). Don't know how keen you are on mathhammer since throwing dice are extremely random, but try and do the math - that vampire lord will do less than a wound every combat phase (he won't get rerolls to hit from ASF because his initiative is lower than the dreadlord's) And the rerolls on ward saves ins't that effetive either. He's rerolling 2+ ward saves ...

Not saying the dreadlord would win, but the vampire lord won't kill him without a fight (if he ties up such a deadly character for a couple of turns I'd say he's done his job anyways).

[Ravenblade]

Haha, I've seen this theory-hammered and put to the test on the battlefield, both against a similar Vampire build and the WS9 with -2 to hit on Zombie Dragon Vampire. The Dreadlord has won every time. The Dreadlord either loses combat and sticks around, or wins combat and eventually kills the Vampire.

Also, your ASF I7 means squat. You need equal-to-or-higher Initiative to get re-rolls from ASF, the Dreadlord is I8 (if you're sensible and don't give him a Great Weapon, I8 is too good to waste). Most Vampire Lords push 300+ (the WS9 -2 to hit on Zombie Dragon one is about 700pts).

The main point of this is, if your uber-killy Vampire Lord ends up in combat with this Dreadlord, we don't care if he wins or loses, he's doing his job by tying up your biggest and nastiest unit, meaning it's standing around doing nothing while we use the remainder of our army to deal with the remainder of yours, for which there will be a sizable points difference.

[Dark Trainer]

Why take dragonhelm and soulrender over the whip of agony? I just hate to waste I8!

Also, being a noob does crown of command confer to his SQUAD and make say a unit of spearmen stubborn too? I know you use the characters leadership, but does his stubborness carry over?

I'm trying to find good FOOT characters to embed inside some spearmen or something. My CC units keep getting mauled!

[Vezzax]

Whip of agony is a good option and I think some players would prefer it over soulrender, but I like soulrender because of the fact that the dreadlord is near unkillable and will get to strike anyways, so he doesn't need to worry too much about retaliation strikes. Soulrender is armour piercing like whip of agony but 1 str higher (Helps out a lot against monsters and very tough characters). Dragonhelm makes him go up to 1+ armour save and it gives him a 2+ ward against flaming attacks (that is extremely handy against lore of metal since all spells from that lore are flaming attacks)

About crown of command: If a character with the crown joins a unit, that unit becomes stubborn as well. So if the dreadlord on a cold one joins up with a unit of cold one knights the whole unit is stubborn! (I almost always take a crown of command in almost any army list)

As for spearmen: I personally take them in large numbers with shields and banner of murder and then stick a master bsb with halberd, armour of midnight and dawnstar (159 points). You can then either put them in horde formation if you want a damage dealer unit or reform them as 5 wide, 10 deep so they will be steadfast meanwhile the master chops away at enemies if you want a more resilient unit .
The build for the master coupled with the banner of murder makes him strength 5, Armour piercing, 1+ Armour save with rerolls!