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I'm primarily a 40k veteran and am playing my first fantasy army (DE) with a few friends. My friends have chosen: tomb kings, vampire counts, lizardmen, and chaos. The first units I bought (but haven't assembled or painted) are a DE sorceress, executioners, warriors, and a reaper bolt thrower. Anyways I want to construct my army to be as effective as possible against those armies. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions from veteran DE players. Thanks.
Well to beat tomb kings, you need plenty of things immune to fear, the easiest way to take a tomb army down is to complete destroy a squad in CC or kill the heroes, if you dont wipe them in CC then theirs a good chance any squad you shot will get their troops back. If he has a casket, DONT LET IT GO OFF.
For Chaos you need to take atleast 2x Reaper bolt throwers to take down any knights at all that he fields, they can tear anything up. Against his warriors on foot, try to charge them before they charge you then flank with a mounted unit or something else thats nasty. Mages and heroes are a so so to. If he goes khorne theirs a good chance your spells wont go off , but if hes tzeench you might need a few to stop his spells from going down.
I havent played against the other armies so this is my knowledge to you
ok here we go!
Tomb Kings: maybe the easiet army to beat... but can be a pain to beat too, depending on your setup. The key to beat TKs are mobility... cause he doesn't have any of that. Second is a darn fast unit or hero to kill of his Hierophant (aka Mr.H from now on), cause w/o his Mr.H his army will litteraly fall apart. Now if you made your army so you have pretty much mobility then you don't need to fight him at all in CC if you're lucky. You'll need a unit of harpies to kill of Mr.H and his archers; one or two flying Noble(s) to kill of remaining characters. Bolthrowers for larger creatures like Ushabtis, Carriorns and Bone Giants. If he have a catapult then send of some shades to do the work. Massive xbow shooting is recomended against anything that's weak... like all skeleton and swarms, Dark Riders works superb here... as they got both mobility and good BS and are fast cavs. But the cheaper crosbowmen are good too. The only thing you have to worry about is if you have some stationary troops and he pops up with swarms or tomb scorpion in their ranks. You'll need some heavy hitters to take them away fast. Cold one knights tend to be good against scorpions and corsairs and spears is good against swarms. I guess witch elves are good too but they don't have armour so they die fast and you can't break undead :/... so I keep to using corsairs or spears.
Vampire Counts: Pretty much the same at TK... except they're even more power play on the characters. They got more resilient units than TK, but lesser in numbers. But the strategy remains the same, namely: pick you fights, kill of his necros asap... then go after his characters. Vampires have less models than TKs but they got more speed and greater characters (vampires). You'll have to have some magic now as they may have etheral creatures. So conclution... use harpies or flying noble(s) to kill of his necros. Have some strong characters (build specially to kill of other characters) in cold one knights units to take on his characters, executioners make excelent flankers. Dark Riders should pick of his faster units like direwolfs and fell bats. Xbow his skeletons/zombies/ghouls to death. Boltthrower on his black coatch... magic missle his wraiths/banhsees to death. (sounds kinda wrong to say die to a undead... )
Note: Undead is nothing like Necrons in 40K... infact I don't think there're any army like either TK or VC in 40k... well many will probably dissagre but I think VC are somewhat like nids in 40k... nasty characters/HQ and a bounch of cheap useless troops and some elite units... but that's just me. While facing TK might look like facing an infantry based IG army... get the image of how many models a TK army got?... and they just keep on comin'
Lizardmen: Hm... I've to warn you for his skins... really. They don't seem good, they doesn't look good... but when they scout and get those poison short bows in range your troops will fall. Sauruses usually goes down after a bit shooting and some spears... mounted sauruses need to be out manuvered... and shoot to death (excelent job for dark riders). But about those skinks... I like to have corsairs to finish them of... shades works fine too. But if he got salamanders the shades needs to take care of them first. Terradons are a pain... but they are expensive and rare, you just need to shoot them down or try and make them charge your spears. Boltthrowers all the way on those stegadons. Now depending on how he chooses his characters you'll choose how much magic you'll use. If he chooses a Slann... they you better have 3 sorceresses with lots of dispell scrolls and such. If he picks a sourus character and some skink shamans then you don't have to worry that much of magic as your harpies or shades will probably finish them of rather quick.
Note: Another army that I think reminds me of nids in 40K... skinks works almost excatly as spinegaunts or termagaunts... sauruses like stealers. Saurus hero/lord = broodlord and slaan = psychic tyrant. ... I play too much warhammer...
Chaos: Ah the cheasier army ... ok chaos is pretty much like chaos in 40K... they've got the biggest baddest units possible... in CC that is. Ok so I lied... it's more like a whole army of khorne berserkes ^_^ yupp chaos in fantasy got no shooting, except for magic missles... the warriors and knights are insane when they're tooled up. Maurouders are somewhat a very cheap meatwall to shield their more important units. Again Mobility is the key to victory here, but yet another important key is magic (magic seemes hard to use while facing Tzeentch or Khorne but it's possible, just mass power dices against khorne and dispell scrolls against Tzeentch). Chaos is a very very CC oriented army... and DE isnot. Never take on chaos in a CC fight... cause your fragile elves will probably loose. you'll need at least one noble or highborn as your army general for the Ld sake. and mayby another character good enough to fight in larger games. After that I recomend you use up your character slots on sorcereses.
Ok you'll need lots of Dark riders to march block his army, at the same time xbow his marauders/daemons(those with only 1 wound)/hounds to death. You'll rely on your boltthrowers against his spawns and chariots. You'll rely heavily on magic to win against his more elite units... such as warriors and knights... or screamers (can't remenber if horrors have 1 or 2 wounds). If he got mounted daemonettes... then take them out asap!... they can ruin quite alot for you. You'll need some pretty decent blocks if you make contact and your magic fails you. Spears with a noble is the cheapest way to make blocks. otherwise black guard is a excelent but very expensive unit.
Watch out for his characters as they're nasty in CC... again try and take away their mages with harpes/shades/flying noble... have a very tooled up Highborn or Noble to fight his charcters. If he decides to use a greater daemon then you should prepare to take quite some fear tests and a terror tests (luckily elves have good Ld). Just use whatever heavy hitting you've got against it. Boltthrowers are good as long as it don't come too close. Your monsters loose the I to the daemons so they won't last very long. highborn on a Manticore is a pretty decent choise to take down a Greater Daemon... have your boltthrowers shoot at it for a round and your scorceresses cast whatever magic that might hurt it... most of the time not accually damagin magics... I find dominion (makes so that you get the charge) or word of pain works the best.
Just as for the TK... Chaos may be the hardest army to beat.. but at the same time if he tools his army 'wrong' Chaos can be the easiest army to beat.
Final Conclution: The units you 'must' have against those armies are the following: Lots of Dark riders... 15 make a good 3 units of 5 riders; one nasty unit of harpies, around 10 is good; at least one noble on a pegasus; at least 2 sorceresses on dark steeds; at least one unit of shades; at least 2 reaper boltthrowers; 2 blocks of warriors with spears or 2 units of corsairs; at least one unit of 5 Cold one Knights.
Optional units: x-bowmen (cheap xbows... but not good in any other areas), executioners (neat flanking unit, but I dislike that they strike last... makes them sometimes too vunerable), black guard (neat as hell... hold against everything!... it's almost like they're unbreakable ... with high I and halberd and ethernal hatred they pack quite a punch... but the price!... they're very very expensive and uses rare slots >_<), Mengil Manhide's Manflayers (accually a very neat unit, got the same problem as Black guard... namely they cost too darn much... even more that the black guard... but they scout, they have poisoned attacks and they hits hard. Oh and Mengil Manhide have the same stats as a Noble... so you can say that you can have a extra Noble besides the normal characters), Battlestandard (good Ld boost and makes your units hold longer)
Other: Chariot (I don't use them much... but thet're good), War Hydra (I've never used them), Witch Elves (very limited use IMO, but darn good then they accually are usefull), Assassins (difficult to use... nearly useless when playing against experienced players), High Sorceress (matter of taste... I like lots of sorceresses better), Beastmaster (bleh... don't use them), Cauldron of Blood (never used it before), Dogs of war(... are you insane man!... are DE or not!?... DE don't dishonor themselves with other races allied to them)
Last edited by zhaf; October 12th, 2005 at 00:48.
Chariots, COKs, Manticores, Hydras are very nice things against the undead ones.
(if you play CoS this gets easier due to mark of slaanesh).
Against lizzies, to take care of skinks the dark magic default spell is quite nice, they are only T2 and chillwin if S3... and they cant shoot the next phase
Chaos, outmaneveur, bait and ram their flanks with knights, chariots or whatnot! RBTs work wonders here.
this goes for the tough and slow units of the lizzies as well.
so basicly, take atleast 2 units of 5 dark riders but the rest is really up to you :yes:
""What's the matter? Don't ya like clowns? Don't we make ya laugh?" - Captain Spaulding.
Against TK, use all your firepower against the unit with 'Mr. H' in, but save your Repeater Bolt Throwers until last. That way, once you have stripped away the rest of his unit, he will no longer get a 'Look Out Sir!' save, and a Repeater Bolt Thrower could realy ruin his day. They are still fairly mobile, since the chariots have a potential 360 degree 32 inch charge range (fast cavalry, My Will Be Done, etc.) so don't get caught out.
Being a Vampire Counts player myself, I know that the key to defeating an undead army is to take out the characters. Undead units cannot hold a fight by themselves, and they need characters to provide the combat power, just as characters need the cover of the units. Take away the big units' rank bonus by charging them in the flank, and they will soon crumble.
Lizardmen can't stand up to heavy cavalry. Saurus, although they have lots of attacks, lack strength to get past armour saves. Use Assassins to hunt out lone Skink priests, using Steed of Shadows to run them down. Dark Riders can take out the Skinks that are inevitably guarding the flanks, and then wipe out the Saurus that are being pounded by your Cold One riders by charging them in the flank. Your Executioners can hold their own against the Kroxigors with their Great Weapons.
As zhaf said, Chaos are probably the hardest to beat, since they are incredibly tough in combat, and as a result, combat should be avoided at all costs. Black Guard or Executioners should be your blocks, or very large units of Warriors. Have all your Heroes as Sorceresses, apart from one Noble who should go in a Dark Rider unit, so you transform a simple flanking unit into a unit that can tear into an enemy from the flank. Take out all his weak troops first, since even his weak troops can negate rank bonuses and hold up your vital units.
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