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I mostly play agianst khorne demon, khorne mortal and beastman. How do dark elve fare against these armies?
Let slip the dogs of war.
Bretonian (over 5k points)
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generally poorly. Bloodletters tend to hit on 3s and wound on 2s against most of your troops. The thing with them is that they don't take units that hit before them too well, they are soft after all. Witch elves do well for this, they limit the bloodletters to 4s to hit, and have a flurry of attacks at higher initiative.
Same nearly goes for chaos warriors, except that they soak up your crazy S3 attacks with thier higher toughness and armour. You have to outmatch them or shoot them down to a managable amount, otherwise they'll build up too much CR. Spearmen will do the job once they are wittled down, an this shouldn'y be too hard, you can never have too many chaos warriors.
Beastmen are all about speed and deployment. Since over half the force skirmishes, you'll have to put your shooting where it counts the most. Kill off the support units (minotaurs, blestigors, and other beefy hard hitting unit with a low wound count) and the herds become very manageble with spears. Beyond the charge you'll hit first with 10-11 attacks, wich means plenty of death for the beasties.
Now overall, Elven troops have the edge on the charge, or if in good positions, but do not have a staying power. when you charge in, make it count. Make sure to have a back up, incase the move goes ill, a second unit should be around to support the ifirst if it fails.
Your spearmen will do most of the soaking, but make sure they do not stay in prolonged combat, ranks go down fast with elves.
A good solid base of infantry, (most specifically, spearmen or corsairs though spearmen are cheaper) should be able to hold against beastheards (especially if wittled down first)
Also, use our elven manouvreability against units with the mark of khorne. Dark riders are fantastic for this role. a unit of 5 (minimum i think) with a musician can be used time after time to bait frenzied units exactly where they dont want to go. Place them just within charge range to the side of a units LoS which will force the chaos player to come closer to you and expose his flanks.
Chariots, knights and executioners are good for charging in to clean up.
A pure khorne army is also very magically resistant (duh!) so i usually dont even field magic users against them. spend the points rather on repeater bolt throwers in particular. Their D3 wounds and no armour save shots will absolutely devastate khorne knightly units.
Massed repeater crossbows also work wonders against warriors and beastmen at closer range (use your fast cavalry to bait them into close range if necessary).Beautifully put!!Since over half the force skirmishes, you'll have to put your shooting where it counts the most. Kill off the support units (minotaurs, blestigors, and other beefy hard hitting unit with a low wound count) and the herds become very manageble with spears.
As was also mentioned, against khorne (bloodletters, warriors, knights) combat shouldn't be your priority so much as resolution. Many a unit has been taken to ground by outnumbering, ranks and banners. Corsairs are good for this as they can carry the warbanner.
Also, with those nice, expensive khorne units (possibly chosen) you will probably outnumber them.
Use harpies (these guys are great!!) for getting behind the enemy, (dark riders again can be used) and combine rear charges with frontal ones
Beastmen have a relatively low leadership i think, which means you can use fear and terror causing units to great effect (cold ones, dragons, manticore, hydra, deathmask etc)
Hope this helps a little,
against the chaos warriors armed with hand weapon and shield, S3 attacks will have great difficulty. If you are going for static combat resolution, it could be worthwhile to ignore the spear and use hand weapon and shield. Chaos warriors will win through kill count, and reducing this a little while maintaining your static CR is probably a better bet than trying to inflict kills against T4 and a 2+ or 3+ save.
The extra attack banner (banner of murder?) could serve you well on a unit of executioners, who would also die a little slower due to high WS. I'd advise against witch elves to fight mortals, but strongly endorse them against daemons and beastmen.
Arena of Death Champion: Nexim of the Guldskullz Tribe. Fear my wrath!
Not really such a good choice against chaos mortals, in particular, chosen models.The extra attack banner (banner of murder?) could serve you well on a unit of executioners, who would also die a little slower due to high WS.
Because of the high number of attacks and high strength (knights totally negate executioner saves) and because executioners have great weapons (strike last) chaos can usually kill enough models such that there wont be any in the front rank to fight back.......Spot on!!against the chaos warriors armed with hand weapon and shield, S3 attacks will have great difficulty. If you are going for static combat resolution, it could be worthwhile to ignore the spear and use hand weapon and shield. Chaos warriors will win through kill count, and reducing this a little while maintaining your static CR is probably a better bet than trying to inflict kills against T4 and a 2+ or 3+ save.
Never try going toe to toe with chaos warriors, they simply outclass us in melee.
With the executioners, I was trying to say that the banner of murder (is that the extra attacks banner?) would probably be worthwhile, but only as a flanking unit. Once warriors or something else tie up the knights/warriors/marauders, a 6-7 wide executioner unit with the banner and champion could flank.
This would result in... 13-15 WS5 S5 killing blow attacks against armored targets, striking them first (flanking...). This should produce enough kills to turn the tide, I'd think.
Do you (or anyone?) think that the executioners would get their rears handed to them, or that they would be more cheaply replaced by basic warriors for static CR?
Arena of Death Champion: Nexim of the Guldskullz Tribe. Fear my wrath!
i have a chaos mortal army and DE/CoS army.
the best way to defeat chaos is by outnumbering and RBT's. i played a game against O&G with my chaos just reciently and discovered this. a little weeny unit of night goblins charged my khorne knights in the flank (after they mauled my opponent's giant) and they fled!! worse yet i roll a 5 and they get overrun by friggin goblins lol.
darkelves dont have many options for "cheap" troops. i would suggest 2-3 dark rider units of 5, as many spearmen/corsairs as you can tolerate, max your Rares with RBT's, DO NOT spend much (if at all) points on warriors with RxB, and (against what others say) go heavy magic with bound spell items imo -against mortal chaos-
yes your opponent will have a 6 or so dispell dice, but he *isnt gonna have any dispell scrolls lined up like most armies do*
try to take out his Marauders first since all DE are good against "fodder" troops. this will give you a better chance of outmanning his big-guns.
Dark elf melee heroes arnt even a match for chaos knights (except for wounds) so keep that in mind. if you decide to get melee heroes they better be on flying mounts used to assist your large regiments to keep them alive.
against beasts: they have little to no armor and little to no ward, so lots of shooting is worth while.
against daemons: they are expensive! generally these are fielded in small amounts to be his "shock" troops, or in an all daemon army it will be few models all together. if you can simply win CR the unit has to take a Ld test. if it's failed the unit is totally destroyed. if he passes he then takes the CR modifier and takes wounds just like undead units.Banner of Slaughter is an "ace in your pocket" that can devistate a large combat in your favor without him knowing.
Daemons have no armor (bloodletters have light armor pfft) but they ALL have 5+ ward. dont expect many kills by craming Cold One Knights into any of his daemons. it's all about resolution on these guys. you have to be very tactical against them, or die miserably.
Last edited by Geisticon; September 7th, 2006 at 19:51.
banner of murder increases your charge range by d6
hydra banner is the extra attack... this banner is 80pts (executioners cant take)
if you can afford the points (ha... yea right) a BSB with this and 11 executioners would be a killer flanker.
Last edited by Geisticon; September 7th, 2006 at 19:53.
Executioners would a a one trick pony. And they still could get on the wrong end of a charge, chaos can have plenty of speed to catch them.
If anything, black guard would a great threat. They hit before the warriors, have a great weapon skill, and still have decent strength.
A cauldron of blood could be a nice way to take the fight to them.