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I've been flipping through the DE book and was looking at the Black Guard. With just heavy armor and a halberd, they don't seem worth the points. But then I saw the eternal hatred rule (which I love on Strigoi characters) and the fact that they're stubborn.
Yet I never see DE players take them. Instead I see loads of bolt throwers. Still, I only play against a few regular gamers. What does the rest of the world do? Do any of you take BG?
Even though it'd make for an awfully expensive unit, the banner that would give them fear seems like it could make them that much nastier.
You could use them in concert with cold ones to outnumber the enemy and force an insane courage roll.
But with that low armor, they must die in droves against high str enemies.
i use them, and while your right they do die in droves against opponents with a high strength, i tend to not send them that way, with our higher movement and manouvrable units i (almost always) get them where i want/need them to be.
so basically, i have had a good run with them so far, but it is always a pain if they go down.
lets agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours are
I've often thought about using them in conjunction with the BSB for a small unit which is almost unbreakable.
Could be excellent for tying up an enemy elite unit whilst you manoeuvre to pull off a flank charge or something similar
I've never been fond of black guard. That is not to say I don't own any, as the models are beautiful. However they just don't really pull their weight.
Eternal hatred is a fun ability, and so you will be hitting most non-chaos/dwarf infantry on 3's with a reroll. However then the enemy is just taking 4-5 S4 hits. Most units can shrug this off without a second thought. However, I6 does ensure that they will be striking first most of the time.
Their other downside is that they really just cost too much to do what stubborn units do best. A unit of 10 simply won't survive long enough against any enemy model with more than 1 attack. Dryads, saurus, khorne, etc, will all absolutely butcher black guard in 2 turns of combat.
The only time I think I'd really advise using them is against good solid troops with a single attack. Dwarfs for instance. You won't kill many of them, but black guard could probably hold up a unit of hammerers or longbeards for long enough to successfully flank them. However you always have to live with the depressing thought that those very solid-stat troops cost less than yours.
Overall I have taken black guard several times, and they've never really done anything to warrant taking them again.
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I was comparing them in my head to my WE eternal guard, which are also stubborn, lack hatred, but get a pile of attacks, around 15 when not charging, but at a low strength.
I'm not really sure which is better. The EG usually do pretty well when supported by a character. Do you run BGs with a character in them?
A big block of cheapo spearmen can really do the same job of holding something still for a flanking. They dont cost an arm and a leg, and they dont take a rare slot (which are better spent on RBT's & Hydras).
That is why you will continue to not see many DE players use them, atleast not until they are made cheaper or improved in some way to make them worth it.
Sure, they are good in some situations. Such as against elite infantry like longbeards, which are too much for spearmen. Such situations are a bit too uncommon to warrent taking BG in a 'take all comers' tourney type list.
Its part of the reason why a lot of DE players are very unhappy with the current army book. only 2 of the 4 rare choices are viable options (amongst other things like poor item lists, & stupid cavalry).
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They are just too expensive for what they do. Eternal Hatred and Stubborn are a nice combo, but with only 1 attack a piece at S4 and heavy armor, they can't kill enough and they can't shrug off enough wounds to be effective. They will tie up a unit for a bit, but then you're wasting a lot of points, so tying up that unit doesn't matter cause you just lost 200+ points.
Not to get off topic, but I'd much rather use Executioners. Nothing like lopping off a couple of Iron Breaker or Knights of the Realm heads.