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    Help Continuing My Dark Elf Army

    Hey, I am a relatively new warhammer player and this is what I have so far for my army:

    10 RxB men
    22 Spearmen
    10 Executioners
    1 Reaper Bolt Thrower
    Sorceress
    Noble (Malus Darkblade) on Cold One
    Assassin (Shadowblade)

    I am looking to spend some more on my army, however I am unsure of what to get. I play against friends, and they use Lizardmen, Dwarves, Empire, High Elves, and Vampire Counts. With my setup, I usually play 1000pt games, and I have noticed I usually get torn to shreds in close combat (and that assassins are rarely worth their points), and I am heavily reliant on shooting and magic.

    What should my next couple purchases be? I was thinking another box set of warriors so I could have 10RxB and 2 -19 spearmen units. Are there any good fighting units I should be made aware of? I've heard that corsairs are good, but also that spearmen are better worth their points. And how do Witch elves compare against corsairs? I've also heard that dark riders are what really brings out a dark elf army, should they be my next purchase? Also, buying my executioner command will probably be important.

    One more thing, would another Reaper Bolt Thrower be a good addition to my army because I rely on shooting? How about another sorceress?

    Last edited by silentnswift; December 16th, 2006 at 19:59.

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  3. #2
    Member Pazuriel's Avatar
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    Greetings

    Looks like you have the same questions I had, so I therefore recommend this link:
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...chii-army.html (Expanding my Druchii army)
    You find it on this forum.
    Good luck!

    -Paz

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    Son of LO Manu_Forti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentnswift View Post
    Hey, I am a relatively new warhammer player and this is what I have so far for my army:

    10 RxB men
    22 Spearmen
    10 Executioners
    1 Reaper Bolt Thrower
    Sorceress
    Noble (Malus Darkblade) on Cold One
    Assassin (Shadowblade)

    I am looking to spend some more on my army, however I am unsure of what to get. I play against friends, and they use Lizardmen, Dwarves, Empire, High Elves, and Vampire Counts. With my setup, I usually play 1000pt games, and I have noticed I usually get torn to shreds in close combat (and that assassins are rarely worth their points), and I am heavily reliant on shooting and magic.

    What should my next couple purchases be? I was thinking another box set of warriors so I could have 10RxB and 2 -19 spearmen units. Are there any good fighting units I should be made aware of? I've heard that corsairs are good, but also that spearmen are better worth their points. And how do Witch elves compare against corsairs? I've also heard that dark riders are what really brings out a dark elf army, should they be my next purchase? Also, buying my executioner command will probably be important.

    One more thing, would another Reaper Bolt Thrower be a good addition to my army because I rely on shooting? How about another sorceress?
    Welcome to the Dark side young Druchii

    I highly reccommend you dont continue down the path of the 'Stand & shoot' style army. its good for beginners & in smaller start-out battles, like 500-1000 points, but after that it's just asking for trouble..
    Dark Elves are most effective when on the attack (& used properly of course). This does take a bit of time to master, but once you do, you'll be glad you did. I lost a lot of my early games while I was still learning, but my last 3-4 games Ive scored massacres, or very close to. It's also a lot more fun than shooting..

    Luckily for you, I think you can get away with keeping most of what you already have! So you havent wasted any money.
    1 unit of crossbows is ok but certainly dont get any more. Adding a second Bolt thrower is fine (these work wonders even in attacking style lists, crossbows dont).

    First off, you need to add more rank & file close combat troops. This can either come in the form of another unit of 20-25 spearmen. Or a unit of 15-20 corsairs with the War banner (if you have a bit of extra cash laying around:rolleyes: ).
    You want to have atleast 2 big squads of rank & file guys to hold enemy units in place while you flank them..

    That's where Dark riders come in. Pick up a unit of 5 of these and you'll never look back.

    Magic really isnt what it used to be in 6th edition. I generally dont bother with it now in 7th edition unless I need a heap of Dispel dice against say Tomb Kings or High Elves. Plus if you want a lot of offensive magic then you need a place for all the sorceresses, it generally forces you to play the boring defensive stlye..now that characters have to be IN units in 7th edition, which has also ruined magic..
    An army should always have 1 sorceress though for some magic defence. So use that sorceress of yours as a Level 1 with the seal of ghrond, and maybe a dispel scroll too. And use the unit of 10 crossbows as a place to put her, safely away from the mayhem the rest of your army will be causing :shifty:. That unit will stay back somewhere near the bolt throwers, while everything else pushes ahead.

    Probably forget about Assasains for the time being. Use that shadowblade as a nice paper-weight

    Probably forget about Chariots since you play against Dwarves :rolleyes:

    I would also invest in a unit of 5 Cold one Knights. Then you can use that Malus model for a Noble on Cold One to join that unit.
    Combine these with the Dark Riders and you then have a flanking unit for each side of the field.

    next I would boost the Executioners up to 12 in 6x2 formation, to maximise the number of attacks. and give them the command upgrades.

    A unit of 5-7 Harpies would then be a nice addition for some insurance against War machines, which you will face a lot of agaisnt Dwarves & High Elves.

    So now its looking something like this:

    -Noble on Cold one
    -Level 1 sorceress, seal of Ghrond.
    -20-25 spearmen with shields & standard
    -15-20 corsairs with warbanner (or second unit of spears).
    -10 Crossbow dudes (sorceress here)
    -5 Dark Riders
    -5 Cold One Knights
    -5-7 harpies
    -12 Executioners
    -2 Bolt throwers.

    Probably pretty close to 1500..

    Hmm what else..
    Another Close combat character.. Perhaps a Highborn on foot (or a Noble if you dont want to/cant get to 2000 points), in one of your infantry units. Then you can keep them fairly close together as they march up the middle, both units benefitting from High leaderships, and a bit of extra punch in combat.
    (OR if you are up against a tonne of magic, take a second level 1. Or just give her 2 scrolls & put the Seal of ghrond on the General).

    Maybe a War Hydra if you need more High strength attacks. That also gives you a terror causer. It could march up the midde between your 2 infantry units, giving you a VERY solid centre, while the flankers do their thing. Backed up by some nice shooting, and with some magic defense.
    That would give you a pretty sweet ~2000 point list.

    Hope that shed some light. Good luck

    Cheers
    Dark Elves - Game #28 vs High Elves: Draw
    W L D
    21 5 5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pazuriel View Post
    Greetings

    Looks like you have the same questions I had, so I therefore recommend this link:
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...chii-army.html (Expanding my Druchii army)
    You find it on this forum.
    Good luck!

    -Paz
    Thanks! checked out your post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manu_Forti View Post
    Welcome to the Dark side young Druchii

    I highly reccommend you dont continue down the path of the 'Stand & shoot' style army. its good for beginners & in smaller start-out battles, like 500-1000 points, but after that it's just asking for trouble..
    Dark Elves are most effective when on the attack (& used properly of course). This does take a bit of time to master, but once you do, you'll be glad you did. I lost a lot of my early games while I was still learning, but my last 3-4 games Ive scored massacres, or very close to. It's also a lot more fun than shooting..

    Luckily for you, I think you can get away with keeping most of what you already have! So you havent wasted any money.
    1 unit of crossbows is ok but certainly dont get any more. Adding a second Bolt thrower is fine (these work wonders even in attacking style lists, crossbows dont).

    First off, you need to add more rank & file close combat troops. This can either come in the form of another unit of 20-25 spearmen. Or a unit of 15-20 corsairs with the War banner (if you have a bit of extra cash laying around:rolleyes: ).
    You want to have atleast 2 big squads of rank & file guys to hold enemy units in place while you flank them..

    That's where Dark riders come in. Pick up a unit of 5 of these and you'll never look back.

    Magic really isnt what it used to be in 6th edition. I generally dont bother with it now in 7th edition unless I need a heap of Dispel dice against say Tomb Kings or High Elves. Plus if you want a lot of offensive magic then you need a place for all the sorceresses, it generally forces you to play the boring defensive stlye..now that characters have to be IN units in 7th edition, which has also ruined magic..
    An army should always have 1 sorceress though for some magic defence. So use that sorceress of yours as a Level 1 with the seal of ghrond, and maybe a dispel scroll too. And use the unit of 10 crossbows as a place to put her, safely away from the mayhem the rest of your army will be causing :shifty:. That unit will stay back somewhere near the bolt throwers, while everything else pushes ahead.

    Probably forget about Assasains for the time being. Use that shadowblade as a nice paper-weight

    Probably forget about Chariots since you play against Dwarves :rolleyes:

    I would also invest in a unit of 5 Cold one Knights. Then you can use that Malus model for a Noble on Cold One to join that unit.
    Combine these with the Dark Riders and you then have a flanking unit for each side of the field.

    next I would boost the Executioners up to 12 in 6x2 formation, to maximise the number of attacks. and give them the command upgrades.

    A unit of 5-7 Harpies would then be a nice addition for some insurance against War machines, which you will face a lot of agaisnt Dwarves & High Elves.

    So now its looking something like this:

    -Noble on Cold one
    -Level 1 sorceress, seal of Ghrond.
    -20-25 spearmen with shields & standard
    -15-20 corsairs with warbanner (or second unit of spears).
    -10 Crossbow dudes (sorceress here)
    -5 Dark Riders
    -5 Cold One Knights
    -5-7 harpies
    -12 Executioners
    -2 Bolt throwers.

    Probably pretty close to 1500..

    Hmm what else..
    Another Close combat character.. Perhaps a Highborn on foot (or a Noble if you dont want to/cant get to 2000 points), in one of your infantry units. Then you can keep them fairly close together as they march up the middle, both units benefitting from High leaderships, and a bit of extra punch in combat.
    (OR if you are up against a tonne of magic, take a second level 1. Or just give her 2 scrolls & put the Seal of ghrond on the General).

    Maybe a War Hydra if you need more High strength attacks. That also gives you a terror causer. It could march up the midde between your 2 infantry units, giving you a VERY solid centre, while the flankers do their thing. Backed up by some nice shooting, and with some magic defense.
    That would give you a pretty sweet ~2000 point list.

    Hope that shed some light. Good luck

    Cheers
    Thanks for the great information. Also, I've heard the Witch elves are nice. Would you advise them, and how would I use them? Also, how would I use dark riders? Harass them with crossbows and flank charges?

  7. #6
    Son of LO Manu_Forti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentnswift View Post
    Thanks for the great information.
    Welcome.

    Also, I've heard the Witch elves are nice. Would you advise them, and how would I use them? Also, how would I use dark riders? Harass them with crossbows and flank charges
    Personally I havent used witch Elves but I hear they are good but very difficult to use. I would have to agree considering that they have no armour and are quiet expensive. They probably wont live to see combat against armies with a good amount of shooting, particularly small arms fire, like high/wood elves, dwarves & empire.
    Against some enemies, particularly low armour ones (orcs, elves, etc), the sheer amount of attacks causes a lot of damage. Against say, dwarves or Chaos, the low strength attacks have difficulty wounding, and bounce off the armour.

    Since Witch elves and Excecutioners are expensive in points, they are better off going in small squads, as flankers. Its simply too expensive to take the size squad you need to combat an enemy unit head on (atleast 15, but more like 20).
    The problem is that they are infantry so they arent particularly fast..Granted, Elven infantry is quick, but not as quick as cavalry. Thats why Dark riders & Cold One Knights are better flankers.
    I wouldnt panic though, you can still use that unit of executioners to hit the enemy head on, a bit of a suicide mission but effective. If you get the Unit champ & 1 other exec into contact with an enemy character, that gives you 3 chances to killing-blow him/her. Also very good against highly armoured enemies, which the rest of your army struggles with.
    Try to figure out in advance which unit the Exec's will be attacking, and try to weaken them with the bolt throwers to even the odds. Even if this only means getting rid of the last rank bonus (1-2 kills) at least.

    As for Dark Riders, yes harassment with crossbows & flanking are 2 of the main things. The others include march blocking & decoy tactics. Use them to zoom around units, getting within 8" of them, but not able to be charged, then the enemy cannot march.
    For decoys, you can deliberately put them in the path of a charge. The enemy will take the bait, declare the charge, you declare a flee, you should easily escape. Then the enemy unit suddenly finds itself stranded in the charge range of one of your units, which you set up for exactly that.
    The Riders then rally next turn with the help of the musician. Thats why you always give them a musician.
    They can also take out warmachines on occassion, if your opponent gets a little careless or unlucky.

    Cheers
    Dark Elves - Game #28 vs High Elves: Draw
    W L D
    21 5 5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manu_Forti View Post
    Welcome.



    Personally I havent used witch Elves but I hear they are good but very difficult to use. I would have to agree considering that they have no armour and are quiet expensive. They probably wont live to see combat against armies with a good amount of shooting, particularly small arms fire, like high/wood elves, dwarves & empire.
    Against some enemies, particularly low armour ones (orcs, elves, etc), the sheer amount of attacks causes a lot of damage. Against say, dwarves or Chaos, the low strength attacks have difficulty wounding, and bounce off the armour.

    Since Witch elves and Excecutioners are expensive in points, they are better off going in small squads, as flankers. Its simply too expensive to take the size squad you need to combat an enemy unit head on (atleast 15, but more like 20).
    The problem is that they are infantry so they arent particularly fast..Granted, Elven infantry is quick, but not as quick as cavalry. Thats why Dark riders & Cold One Knights are better flankers.
    I wouldnt panic though, you can still use that unit of executioners to hit the enemy head on, a bit of a suicide mission but effective. If you get the Unit champ & 1 other exec into contact with an enemy character, that gives you 3 chances to killing-blow him/her. Also very good against highly armoured enemies, which the rest of your army struggles with.
    Try to figure out in advance which unit the Exec's will be attacking, and try to weaken them with the bolt throwers to even the odds. Even if this only means getting rid of the last rank bonus (1-2 kills) at least.

    As for Dark Riders, yes harassment with crossbows & flanking are 2 of the main things. The others include march blocking & decoy tactics. Use them to zoom around units, getting within 8" of them, but not able to be charged, then the enemy cannot march.
    For decoys, you can deliberately put them in the path of a charge. The enemy will take the bait, declare the charge, you declare a flee, you should easily escape. Then the enemy unit suddenly finds itself stranded in the charge range of one of your units, which you set up for exactly that.
    The Riders then rally next turn with the help of the musician. Thats why you always give them a musician.
    They can also take out warmachines on occassion, if your opponent gets a little careless or unlucky.

    Cheers
    Thanks once again for your information. Just one more quick question, I included the witch elves because I felt I needed some more infantry, and I thought they might be better off then those corsairs. I noticed that Dark Elves don't really seem to have the tough or strong infantry, they're very specialized. Would those 2 units of spearmen (or 1 spear 1 corsair) be enough infantry? Could the rest of the army like the dark riders and cold ones take out enemy units effectively? I don't particularly like losing a lot of infantry, like I do now in my 1000pt games with my friends.

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    Member Pazuriel's Avatar
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    Hello again

    Looks like the best way to go is to have at least 2, preferrably 3 blocks of infantry. I will go for spears all over, since they are the cheapest. Any other infantry (except for maybe a unit of corsairs) would simply cost too much I think. 2-3 blocks will tie up the enemy so you can get your heavy hitting flanker where you want them. I think this is the general idea among the experienced players (being a Druchii noob myself )

    -Paz

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    Son of LO Manu_Forti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentnswift View Post
    Thanks once again for your information. Just one more quick question, I included the witch elves because I felt I needed some more infantry, and I thought they might be better off then those corsairs. I noticed that Dark Elves don't really seem to have the tough or strong infantry, they're very specialized. Would those 2 units of spearmen (or 1 spear 1 corsair) be enough infantry? Could the rest of the army like the dark riders and cold ones take out enemy units effectively? I don't particularly like losing a lot of infantry, like I do now in my 1000pt games with my friends.
    i only use 1 unit of 20-25 spearmen, and 1 unit of 15-20 corsairs, and Im kicking-ass more often than not.
    If I was starting my army all over again though, I would probably have a second unit of spearmen, or a large-ish unit of executioners, as a third infantry squad.

    I prefer corsairs over with elves because they only have 1 less attack but get a 4+ save against shooting, and cost less points wise.
    Also, you already have 3 Special choices if you take Knights & harpies as suggested (which you should). So you wouldnt be able to use With Elves unless you get to 2000 points to enable a 4th special. & the 4th Special slot would probably be better spent on a chariot or 2. (just not against dwarves/empire).

    The idea of Elven basic infantry really isnt to dish out damage. They win their fights with static combat resolution (rank bonuses, banners, outnumber etc). Sure, they can kick the snot out of skeletons, goblins & other weak infantry, but against anything tough, combat res is their purpose. Dont plan your fights on the assumption that your infantry will score wounds.. only plan for the static combat res, & get in the mentality of thinking that if they score any wounds, its just a bonus.
    (For example dont charge into an enemy unit thinking 'I can win this combat if I get 5 wounds!'.. Charge in thinking 'I will win this combat with sheer numbers, and if I cause wounds then its a bonus'.. unless its a weak unit like goblins, then you can assume you'll get a few wounds.

    Elves are fast.. so YOU decide who you want to fight, where & when.. dont go charging infantry into fights they cannot win. At least wait until you have a flanking unit in position to help them if the odds arent in their favor, or if you cant avoid the fight and they need help.

    Could the rest of the army like the dark riders and cold ones take out enemy units effectively? I don't particularly like losing a lot of infantry, like I do now in my 1000pt games with my friends
    Maybe you could give us some examples of how you are using your infantry which is getting them killed?
    No the Knights & riders wont wipe out units on their own, but they will if they hit the flank of a unit already fighting your infantry to the front.
    Dont get too torn up about losing infantry. You should expect to lose a fair few of them. Just be concious of not letting them get below 50%.. or if they do, be concious of not letting them be completely destroyed. Helps the victory point count.
    (example: If your enemy gets a lucky stone thrower shot on your 20 spears & kills 11, then they arent much use anymore & arent going to do any damage. so have them run off and hide somewhere, to deny him the extra 100-200 victory points for finishing them off & getting their standard.. make sense?

    Cheers
    Dark Elves - Game #28 vs High Elves: Draw
    W L D
    21 5 5

  11. #10
    Son of LO
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    If you aspire to play 2k or 2250 pt battles then you'll need at about four blocks of 20+ infantry. I would go with spears myself for cheapness, but corsairs work too.

    Manu is right about DR, their speed and fast cavalry rule makes them invaluble.

    Ciao

    Stonehambey

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