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I've been fighting a lot against HE's of late. I'd like to employ my dark riders to charge-bait and march-block and flank for the largish units of spears/corsairs I like to employ. However, my fast units are typically pinned/destroyed by eagles, silver helms, and dragon princes. Those that evade those threats (or those deployed sacrificially to those threats) are gunned down by the RBTs of the foe.
So basically I'm brainstorming strategies against the HE. My most successful strategy is deploying out of LOS of the machines, assuming the table has some obstacles.
I want to avoid going all monster DE, I have a lot of infantry and a few units of dark riders. I've also got harpies, COKs, RBT's of my own, and some mages.
This is one of the few armies I reccomend taking a unit of Warriors with crossbows against. Use them to kill the enemy archers. Then your harpies can advance unmolested and hit those RBT crews, once they are down, your Dark riders shuold be fairly safe.. and if he wastes RBT fire killing the harpies, then theyre still doing their job!
I find the 2 chariot combo to be particularly effective here. 2D6 S5 impact hits + a Noble & crew/cold one attacks will utterly flatten any T3 unit..espcially with re-rolls to hit. + fear
I recommend this unless his army has a lot of cavarly to counter charge the slow-ish chariots.
Usually, if they take the cheesey amount of magic, dont waste points on magic defence. Just a level 1 with 2 scrolls to cancel the BIG spells, and a seal of ghrond on the general.. that lets you spend extra points on combat stuff (with re-rolls, combat is where you want to be against HE!!). Then once you get to combat, their shooting/magic becomes pretty useless, and you also outnumber them due to the points they spent on all that magic.
Basically, you cant beat them at magic, so dont even try. You can however flatten them in combat, so what I said above works with these factors in mind.
Corsairs are better than spearmen against HE's. The extra save against all that shooting/magic missiles makes all the difference. Ask if he will let you proxy spearmen as Corsairs (15-20 with Warbanner).
Dark Elves - Game #28 vs High Elves: Draw
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You "can" but you wont always. Remember that high elves fight in three ranks with spears and that it will still take a couple of turns to get into combat with them.You can however flatten them in combat, so what I said above works with these factors in mind.
With minimal magical defence you will still take a beating before actually reaching combat.
In games against the HE, harpies are excellent because of their high movement, and shades because they have ranged weapons and can scout.
Use units like this, or at a pinch dark riders to target their shooting and magic users. If the points you would have spent on magical defence is instead spent on counter measures the combats will more or less evenly numbered in which case your rerolls will come into play quite nicely.Hmmmm, i always did it the other way around. Use our own repeater bolt throwers and harpies to target and tie up their missile troops giving ours time to get close enough to target theirs.This is one of the few armies I reccomend taking a unit of Warriors with crossbows against. Use them to kill the enemy archers. Then your harpies can advance unmolested and hit those RBT crews
Longbow armed HE usually deploy back a little to give themselves a turn of shooting unmolested leaving DE repeater crossbowmen at a disadvantage,
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I know their spears fight in 3 ranks, but it doesnt matter if you never give them a change to fight back. I hit each unit with a round of bolt thrower shots to take away their back rank bonus and help with outnumbering, then charge them with the Chariots, which will break them before they hit back.
Cold one Knights also play a more useful roll against elves. They wont totally crush things on the charge like 2 chariots will, but their 2+ save does mean they can withstand alot of the piddly S3 attacks.
So instead of the usual flanking role, they can be quite effective at charging spearmen etc head on. If you weaken them enough with shooting so that they dont break you with Static combat res, then the COK's will either finish them off or hold them up for ages with 2+ saves.
So its a good idea to give them a standard bearer against HE!Sometimes. Like I said, if you save the Scrolls for the big spells, then the lesser spells such as magic missiles etc will certainly kill off a good 10 guys or so but thats not too bad. Then the hundreds of points saved on magic will buy you an entire unit & then some.With minimal magical defence you will still take a beating before actually reaching combat.By that theory there wouldnt be an archer unit left for the Crossbows to target! ^^Hmmmm, i always did it the other way around. Use our own repeater bolt throwers and harpies to target and tie up their missile troops giving ours time to get close enough to target theirs.
Im surprised if you ever pulled that off. I normally run my harpies up hopping from cover to cover before reaching the lines (for example: flying behind a forest, then behind a building, then exposing themselves for 1 turn to get Line of sight, then charging).
Which reminds me, if you can get your harpies behind cover, preferrably something they can still see from to charge, such as a low wall, then they become almost impossible to hit with shooting.
Really your harpies should only ever be exposed to shooting for 1 turn before charging, unless there's buck all scenery.Good point.Longbow armed HE usually deploy back a little to give themselves a turn of shooting unmolested leaving DE repeater crossbowmen at a disadvantage,
Perhaps you could be a bit sneaky (we are Druchii after all) & deploy a bit of cover on the 12" line, that might tempt him into deploying them behind it, and thus deploying closer. Worked for me with a magic heavy list, because the magic missiles dont need to roll to hit, so the cover doesnt help them. Although I still recommend close-combat lists
Dark Elves - Game #28 vs High Elves: Draw
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As soon as my US tax rebate comes in, I'm buying myself a few chariots.
My regular HE opponent doesn't usually flatten me with magic. 2 lvl 2's, a Ring of Corin (anti-item bound spell), and banner of D3 PD. I can match that pretty easily, so we each get the odd spell off, but noone dominates the magic phase. I'm thinking that if I go 1 lvl4 of Dark Magic with all those anti-shooting spells, I could do quite nicely! My level 2 usually has the darkstar cloak and goes with Lore of death.
I may also need to invest in some shades. I've had fun with shadow warriors against war machines before, no reason why DE can't do even better with the hatred rule.
I'm usually fighting against 1-2 units of infantry (spears or swordmasters), 2-3 heavy cav (SH and dragon princes), 1 fast-cav, 2 eagles, 2 RBTs, 2 chariots, 2 lvl2 heros, and 1 prince.
Thanks for the help so far, lemme know if you have other ideas!
Good!As soon as my US tax rebate comes in, I'm buying myself a few chariots.I still think its a lot of points to spend on magic just to 'get off the odd spell'. Atleast give the level 1 with 2 scrolls a try and see how the extra combat stuff does for you.My regular HE opponent doesn't usually flatten me with magic. 2 lvl 2's, a Ring of Corin (anti-item bound spell), and banner of D3 PD. I can match that pretty easily, so we each get the odd spell off, but noone dominates the magic phase. I'm thinking that if I go 1 lvl4 of Dark Magic with all those anti-shooting spells, I could do quite nicely! My level 2 usually has the darkstar cloak and goes with Lore of death.Shades could be useful as an addition to harpies, but I wouldnt take them instead of harpies if you're only taking 1 or the other.I may also need to invest in some shades. I've had fun with shadow warriors against war machines before, no reason why DE can't do even better with the hatred rule.Hmm he doesnt take any archers.. maybe you could save some points by taking some spearmen instead of Corsairs then. Although I guess there are still magic missiles.I'm usually fighting against 1-2 units of infantry (spears or swordmasters), 2-3 heavy cav (SH and dragon princes), 1 fast-cav, 2 eagles, 2 RBTs, 2 chariots, 2 lvl2 heros, and 1 prince.
How big are the Silverhelm & dragon prince units? If they are big (10) then they will hit pretty hard and you wont have anything fast enough to charge them first, so I'd almost recommend some Black Guard to give you something that can withstand a charge.
If they are only the usual 5-6 strong units, then I think large infantry squads will be enough (25 spears or 20 corsairs +war banner)
I would completely ignore the infantry with your bolt throwers, since the chariots can deal with them. Concentrate the RBT fire on the Eagles & cavalry.
& lastly, where does he put his prince? A well placed assasain could deal with him.. Especially if he is charging in with a unit of cavalry & then YOU get to fight first, he wont expect that
Dark Elves - Game #28 vs High Elves: Draw
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I will give the anti-magic only DE a try, but I'm less enthusiastic about the option. I already play Khorne and Dwarves, so I look at anti-magic DE as the weak option. And I want 1 army that has a magic phase to speak of...
Definately including harpies, might also include shades. agree completely.
He runs his knights 5-6 strong. His prince was actually running around on its own last game (vs. CC oriented dwarves), with a rerollable 1+ save and a 4+ ward save. If he was facing DE, he'd PROBABLY stick the guy in a unit... most likely silver helms or Dragon Princes. Given the protection on the guy, I think I'd have to go with killing blow items and hope to get lucky, or the Sword of Rhuin to ignore his armor. But if I was doing that, I'd probably be better off just killing his extra cavalry to win combat resolution, and hope to run the prince down.
Sounds like you are recommending I just let my infantry slug it out with his cavalry. Drat. I was hoping for a more elegant solution... Oh well, time to let the groundsloggers earn their pay then...
Thanks for the continued help!
If you want to play magic heavy you have to have to have alot of sorceresses (I use 3 in a 1,5k game!). Dark Magic is the way to go against HE as most of the spells would benifit you, specially Dominion and Black Horror. Elven knights won't have S higher than 3 so on 4+ they die with black horror. Dominion would let you stop their movement. Soul eater is good against his big blocks of infantry as they all have T3 and bad sv. If their prince is giving your trouble just WoP him if he's going on his own fire your boltthrower at him use the strong shot so he loses D3 wounds if he fails his wardsave. If they allow Cult items you can take the wand that boosts your magic and soulstone for a nice wardsave of your own. Remenber that Killing Blow allows ward saves so on 4+ the prince just ignores it. If you want to go with killing blow go with executioners+bsb+hydra banner... expensive yes but the number of attacks you'll be getting is overwhelming.