Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I have really given the RoR for DoW a good look over the last weeks time, and I thought I would share my conclusions with you all.
The RoR list actually includes more than a few units that are well worth taking for a DoW general. Expecially the infantry choises include some powerful upgrades compared to the DoW ordinary troops.
I will start with the best units and move down to the worst!
BEORG BEARSTRUCK AND THE BEARMEN OF URSLO
Cheap infantry led by a powerful character is always a winner. Especially when the character is as powerful as Beorg, and the infantry have 2A, WS4 and AS4+ in close combat. The unit also includes a pretty nasty banner, that makes Beorg hit most enemies on 2+ in any first round of combat, which normally results in 3-5 wounds from him alone. A unit of 20 bearmen can more than stand up to even the most elite infantry, and Beorg himself is well suited for challenges with high toughness, 3 wounds and a 4+ ward save.
Frenzy is a two-edged sword ofcourse, and you have to be careful that this unit is well supported. It is nice, however, that you don’t have to worry about panic tests, fear and terror!
A unit of 20 costs 335 points, which is pretty expensive but not overly so. Considering what a unit of character led infantry can cost for other armies, Beorgs Bearmen seem very good for the price!
Overall rating: 9/10
If you want a powerful heavy cavalry unit that can break most regiments even on a frontal charge, Voland’s Venators can really do the job for you! There is nothing fluffy about this regiment, other than you get +1S compared to normal heavy cavalry for the price of 3 points more per model – more than worth it, in my opinion! Voland himself is equal to any mercenary captain, but calculations show that he is slightly cheaper in terms of points, and his equipment is good.
Really there is no reason NOT to include a unit of Venators. They are plain and simply rock solid heavy cavalry!
A unit of 6 with Voland costs 219 points, which I find is about the right size.
Overall rating: 8/10
LONG DRONG’S SLAYER PIRATES
Unbreakable slayer dwarves are a menace to all cavalry and chariot armies – ESPECIALLY when the slayer dwarves have two S4 armour piercing pistols each, that they can use in the shooting phase, to stand and shoot when charged and in close combat! Long Drong himself is a strong character with high WS and four armour piercing pistol attacks. The best thing about the unit is, that they continue to fight with pistols no matter how long the combat lasts! They will slowly tear apart any hard hitter that made the mistake of charging them. Beware! Foul Brettonians!
They are costly, however, at 12 points per model – perhaps too costly, and they are very susceptible to enemy shooting (especially skinks!), so you have to keep them covered until you need them. They are also slow, like all dwarves, so the initial position of the unit is crucial.
A unit of 15 is all you need. It will cost you 255 points. But remember that they can shoot TWICE in the shooting phase with an effective range of 11 (8 range + 3 move). That means 10 s4 armour piercing shots!
Overall rating: 7/10
RICCO’S REPUBLICAN GUARD
If you are considering pikemen for your DoW force, it is almost always worth it to consider Ricco’s Republican Guard. The improvement from WS3 to WS4 actually makes a huge difference, and you get it for only 1 point more per model. Ricco the captain is poorly equipped for a mercenary captain, and chances are that he will perish pretty quickly. He is slightly underpriced like Voland, however.
If you want two units of pikemen to be the center piece of your army, it is often a good idea to have one unit with the paymaster and general in, and then Ricco’s Republican Guard as the other. Both can stand up to most enemies, as long as they are fighting to their front!
20 Republican Guards cost excactly 300 points. And they are proberbly worth it.
Overall rating: 7/10
Golgfag is another lord-like character you can include through RoR without using up any lord slots (the other being Beorg). He is a powerful character with 6 S5 attacks per round, desent survivabelity and better leadership than most ogres. He is accompagnied by 3 overpriced ogres with two hand weapons as himself – which unfortunatly is terrible equipment for ogres! Shields and hand weapons for 3+ AS or great weapons for s6/s7 attacks would have been MUCH better.
However, with two hand weapons, Golgfag’s Ogres do produce an astounding amount of attacks per round – 6 S5 attacks and 13 (!!) S4 attacks to be precise. But 4 ironguts produce 12 S6 attacks per round and they cost little more than half of Golgfag’s Ogres!
The regiment does include musician and standard, ending up at the grand total of 285 points, and it can definatly be useful against low/medium armoured units.
Overall rating: 6/10
OGLAH KHAN’S WOLFBOYS
This unit of fast cavalry is often overlooked simply because you don’t want fast cavalry to be costly or contain a standard bearer. The thing is, that this unit isnt really meant to be used as you normally use fast cavalry. I would more classify it as “medium” cavalry.
The regiment follows the rules for fast cavalry, but all the riders have a nice 4+ AS. Oglah is a powerful character – equal to a mercenary captain, and he also follows all the rules for fast cavalry. If you compare a wolf rider to the ordinary DoW fast cavalry model (w. bow, spear and shield like the wolf rider), you will discover that the wolf rider cost 3 points less, moves faster and has better AS! Not too shabby!
When the wolfboys hit, they hit hard. Not as hard as most heavy cavalry but definatly a lot harder than ordinary light cavalry. They are perfect for running down skinks, detachments, skaven slaves or other light cavalry, and can even take some desent regiments on a frontal charge! And don’t forget that they can still shoot while marching and make fancy moves to threathen elite units rear or flank. (and when I say threathen, I don’t mean “threathen” like ordinary light cavalry. If the elite regiment doesn’t turn around, its doomed – as simple as that!)
So why doesn’t this regiment rank higher? Two things: Leadership and cost. Oglah has Ld7, so focused shooting, other panicking units and fear/terror have about a 45% chance of sending these pretty wolves running – and running far! You really cant afford to loose a unit that easely, when it has cost you 190 points!
Overall rating: 6/10
PIRAZZO’S LOST LEGION
This is another fine unit of pikemen. It works like the Dark Elf city guard (City Garrison List), with ranged units in the front row and pikemen behind. The thing is, that this combination actually is pretty powerful for a pikemen unit, because you hold back if the enemy refuses to attack you and cripple them down slowly. You also get the option to stand and shoot as a charge reaction. Pirazzo is very underpriced (costs only 54 points with equipent) and his BS5 crossbow shot can cause some damage.
The unit comes with light armour. Anyone would gladly have payed a point more per model to have heavy armour on them, but alas – it was not to be! Positioning The Lost Legion in the front of your army to help shooting, will provide a very juicy target for even your enemy’s ordinary S3 missiles. A crippled pikeman unit isnt worth a lot unfortunatly.
Because of their light armour I would field The Lost Legion 25 man high, adding up to 310 points.
Overall rating: 6/10
RUGLUD’S ARMOURED ORCS
The Armoured Orcs is another “multipurpose” unit you can include in your army. They are resiliant with T4 and heavy armour, and have a +2 combat bonus from their standard bearer instead of the normal +1. They all come with crossbows and “choppa” – a weapon that provides a slight strength bonus when they charge. Ruglud is a pretty powerful character in close combat, but unfortunatly he doesn’t have the flair for ranged attacks, that Pirazzo has.
If you choose a unit of 20, you can start out in a 2x10 formation to maximise shooting and then reform when the enemy closes in on you. With a static +6 combat bonus, The Armoured Orcs will have a good chance against strong enemy regiments, especially if the orcs charge or manage to take a rank of the enemy when they stand and shoot.
A unit of 20 orcs costs 334 points, and one must consider whether a unit of regular dwarfs with hand weapons, shields and crossbows wouldn’t do the same thing – just cheaper. I think it’s a matter of taste, really, and Ruglud’s Armoured Orcs is definatly a worthy addition, if you can spare the points.
Overall rating: 5/10
ASARNIL THE DRAGONLORD
DoW doesn’t really come with a lot of options for powerful mounts like other armies do, so having the option to include an elven dragon rider through RoR is great. After all, the dragon itself causes terror, flies and is a powerful combatant, that will attract a disproprionate amount of attention from the enemy. There are arguments whether the dragon has the usual 3+ scaly armour save of dragons, because the army list doesn’t state it outright. Most agree that there is no reason why it shouldn’t have the AS, however.
Asarnil is unfortunatly a very weak character. He has only 2 wounds, T3 and AS4+, and with the attention of most of the enemy’s shooters, there is a good chance, that he is dead, even before you get to use the dragon. Even if he survives the missiles and magic, he proberbly dies in the first tough battle he enters. In most cases, this wont render the dragon completely useless, but you loose control over it – loosing the tactical advantage you bought so dearly.
Asarnil and his dragon arent cheap either. 460 points seems expensive even with the Amulet of Dragonheart, and it doesn’t even help against cannon balls.
Overall rating: 5/10
A place you definatly don’t want to have a standard bearer, is in a unit of missile troops. But The Besiegers come with heavy armour and pavise, for only 3 points more per model than regular crossbowmen. This is a good deal, and Braganza himself is very well equipped and is slightly underpriced.
The unit can be an excellent shield unit, if you wish to hang back and shoot at the enemy. The opposite player might also underestimate The Besiegers’s close combat abilety which is definatly better than most other missile troops.
15 Besiegers with Branganza cost 240 points, which is more than I would normally waste on a single ranged unit. For the excact same price you can get 30 regular crossbowmen, which clearly in the most cases is the better choice.
Overall rating: 4/10
THE CURSED COMPANY
This is one of the really freaky units you can include. It’s a unit of undead led by a hero class champion with powerful magic items. The thing is, that every wound this unit causes in close combat, brings another member to its own ranks! With a hero like Richter, the unit can easely cause 3 wounds per round of combat, which means that they will have to be beaten pretty badly to loose numbers. The unit also comes with a banner that reduces the effect of a lost combat, which can really make all the difference!
The Cursed Company really cant stand up to anything above standard infantry – even with Richters help, and it is proberbly going to loose more combats than it wins. That doesn’t neccesarily mean that it will loose any numbers, however, and cavalry are really going to have a tough time against these undead! Richter is a fine swordsman, but if is he killed by another more powerful character (or by bad rolls), The Cursed Company crumbels!
The worst part of it all is the cost. 20 skeletons with Richter Kreugar cost 405 points, and you cant expect them to earn even half back in a 6 turn battle. I can see the use of the unit, but I would never include it myself!
Overall rating: 4/10
The DoW army list includes some pretty basic, but desent heavy cavalry. Combined with Voland’s Venators you really got what you need on that front. Tichi-Huichi’s Raiders is a cavalry unit that uses the old, powerful cold ones from the fifth edition with 2 S4 attacks each, and even though the skinks themselves are pretty weak, the cold ones more than makes up for it in close combat. A charge from these cold one knights absolutely tears through low tougness and low/medium armour troops – even slightly better than Volands knighs can!
Unfortunatly they lack what most heavy cavalry relies on; durabilety. The power of the cold ones doesn’t help the skinks poor WS and T, and even their armour save is one point worse than normal heavy cavalry. You have to protect this unit, because its very expensive, and it can be shot down easely even by normal missiles. The unit does cause fear however, which is very useful. With the damage it causes, it can easely beat enemies to below their own unit strength and auto-break them with fear.
A unit of 6, including Tichi-Huichi costs 250 points, and you will proberbly be better of with regular heavy cavalry and/or Voland’s Venators.
Overall rating: 4/10
LEOPOLD’S LEOPARD COMPANY
Pikemen normally don’t flee to charges, so having a pikeman unit that is immune to psycology doesn’t seem that bad an idea, especially against undead. Leopold is also a good champion with some desent equipment, and a relatively low cost.
The problem is that the regiment comes with light armour and you pay 2 points extra for the immune to psycology. Usually it isnt really worth that much. Had it just been stubborn, unbreakable or frenzy (ohh, I always wanted frenzied pikemen!) it would have been great.
All in all, it really isnt a very impressive buy at 330 points for a 20 strong unit, but if you are fighting undead regulary, you should consider it.
Overall rating: 4/10
BRONZINO’S GALLOPER GUNS
Mostly you don’t really need to move cannons around, but scenarios occur, where that option would really help. Sometimes the enemy outdeploys you, leaving no good targets for your cannons, and in that case a 16’ march move can be really helpful in getting your cannons to where, you most need them. The maximum guess range of the Galloper Gun is 24’, but normally the cannon overshoots your guess, so the actually range of the guns is more like 30’. Another good thing is that the crew with Bronzino can easely beat off most skirmishers, flyers and light cavalry that attacks your cannon.
The Galloper Guns take up a rare slot, and you can include more than one, if you wish to. The decreased range is sometimes a real problem though, and so is the increased cost!
A Galloper Gun costs 165 points – 5 points short of the price of two regular cannons. It seems as a waste of points to me.
Overall rating: 3/10
LUMPIN CROOP’S FIGHTING COCKS (what a name!)
I think all halflings should be skirmishers, but unfortunatly you have to turn to RoR to get that extra flair. The Fighting Cocks is an elite ranged unit with great leadership and accurate shots. The characters are great archers, but not surprisingly pathetic close combat fighters, and they seem a bit overpriced to me.
There is one HUGE problem with this unit however. You simply don’t want a 100 VP banner in a skirmishing halfling unit that uses missile weapons. That’s like giving away victory points!
6 halflings with Lumpin cost 90 points. You can get 15 normal halflings for the same price, without taking the risk of giving the enemy easy extra victory points.
Overall rating: 3/10
THE ALCATANI FELLOWSHIP
If you really want pikemen on a budget pointwise, The Alcatani Fellowship isnt the way to go. These troops are no better than peasants with long sticks, and their leader isnt a great fighter either. They are somewhat cheap though, and the possible damage they can cause to charging enemies is equal to most other pikeman units. They hit on 4+ anyway.
The problem is that pikemen units really don’t work well unless they are strong. When both the regiment and their champion are as bad fighters as The Alcatani Fellowship, there is a risk that they cant really take charges or beat anything better than skaven slaves. They are even only lightly armoured!
They are not THAT cheap either. A regiment of 20 costs 215 points and you cant really expect them to hold very long against anything moderatly strong. A unit of 20 ordinary pikemen with full command costs 250 points with heavy armour, and will do you much better.
Overall rating: 3/10
AL MUKTAR’S DESERT DOGS
Back to the “costly light cavalry with banner” problem! The Desert Dogs are fast cavalry without bows and spears, but led by two characters – one of them pretty powerful with a good magical weapon. The unit also comes with a VERY good magic banner, that can really turn a combat around.
Unlike the wolfboys this unit of light cavalry is very poorly armed both for offence and defence. It also moves slower than the wolfboys. With the impressive banner and the combined might of two characters, I am sure that this unit should be able to win some combats, IF it ever got into close combat. When the enemy sees a 245 point unit with low numbers, low toughness and low armour save, one doesn’t have to guess for long at where his ranged attacks and magic are going to be targeted! In many a battle, Al Muktar’s Desert Dogs will be history before they even get the chance to participate.
If you want light cavalry use regular light cavalry. If you want light cavalry with a punch use Oglah’s Wolfboys. Never waste 245 points on Al Muktar’s Desert Dogs!
Overall rating: 3/10
MARKSMEN OF MIRAGLIANO
Ordinary DoW crossbowmen don’t really hit that well, so an upgraded unit with BS4 really does sound great at first!… until you give them a closer look. The upgrade to marksmen grants them light armour, which is nearly worthless on its own, and BS4 – for 3 points more per model. That’s way to expensive. Maximilian, the leader is poorly equipped for close combat and too expensive as well!
But the worst of it all is, that the unit still comes with a 100 VP standard bearer for the taking! And because both the ordinary marksman and Maximilian are so poorly armoured, they will have no chance of defending it in close combat.
10 marksmen, including Maximilian cost 180 points. 20 crossbowmen cost 160 points. Enough said.
Overall rating: 2/10
GIANTS OF ALBION
Two giants accompagnied by a mage with a 4+ ward save that does even take up a character slot! Who can say no to that?
Well, first of all these giants arent quite equal to the ordinary DoW giants. The very thing that makes giants worth their points is Ld10 and “stubborn”, and these old, forsaken giants come with Ld6 and no “stubborn”. Second, the unit takes up two rare slots, which means no cannons! The mage, Hengus, is also only a level 1 mage, and he is more or less forced to expose himself to shooting and magic, if he wants to keep close to the giants to help their poor leadership!
The two giants and Hengus cost a massive 450 points, and one can only consider, whether they are even worth half of it. If you want two giants, simply recruit two ordinary Ld10 and stubborn DoW giants for 410 points.
Overall rating: 2/10
Duellists are great. Especially when you arm them with a pistol and hand weapon! Duellists arent as great when they are armed with two hand weapons, throwing knives and an utterly useless “cloak”. They are even worse, when they despite of the bad equipment have an individual point cost of 10 points!
To make things even more ridicoules they are led by an even more overpriced character with the same crappy equipment and a mask that causes fear. As if ‘that’ is useful for a skirmishing unit! Had it been terror, it could have been somewhat useful. Especially if Vespero’s Vendetta had been scouts.
Vespero and four duellists cost 125 points, which is nearly amusing, considering that nobody would even include the unit, had it cost half that much!
Overall rating: 1/10
BIRDMEN OF CATRAZZA
These are clearly the biggest joke in the entire RoR! The Birdmen are pathetic shooters, pathetic in close combat, have absolutely no durabelity and an individual cost of 25 points. They are led by an even more pathetic character with bad shooting, absolutely and completely no combat abilety and no durabelity either!
They cant really be used to attack war machines because they can hardly beat a desent crew… They cant be used to hunt skirmishers or light cavalry, because they cant beat them. They cant really be used for shooting either, because even with their special shooting rules, they can accomplish about 30 points of kills during an entire battle, maximum, IF noone touches them, and they get to attack whatever they want.
5 Birdmen cost 150 points, which is about 100 point to much. Please don’t include them in your army, or I might get a heart attack!
Overall rating: 1/10
Last edited by Auere; January 19th, 2008 at 09:26.
I agree with most of your assessments. I believe we'd both agree that the DoW manual itself needs a serious update to bring it inline with 7th edition rules (ie. make command cheaper in most cases and optional in the RoR regiments) I think some of our differences of opinion stem from different playing styles though.
I think you have Beorg's boys ranked a bit too high. They are really expensive and most of the attacks are still str3 after all. Beorg is basically a frenzied vampire lord character and comes pretty cheap so I guess it balances but I would rank him 7.5 or 8/10 since the regular Norsemen can be made more versatile.
Voland could be ranked abit higher. Basically you get a free hero character and super strengthed heavy cav. Put a regular captain in with them and you have 10 str6 hits on the charge.
Long Drong's you have ranked too high. 5or 6/10 at best. Their firepower is immense in/out of combat, but their speed is so slow and due to reform/wheeling rules, a simple fast cav unit can tie this expensive unit up for the entire game.
I would rank Ricco's Guard higher. If you're going to take Pikes, you take Ricco's. Bascially for 1 more point/per guy (if I remember right) you get a hero with 4 attacks and heavy armor.
Lost legion I'd rank a 7/10 because I can see a use for them, even though, it would be expensive to make them a worthwhile unit.
I would put the Desert Dogs as 5/10 (because vs. some armies they could be pretty good) and the same for Oglah's Wolf Riders (medium cav never seems to make the impression it should) and everything else I would rank 0/10 because I would never take them (mainly due to the points you brought up) and you can find better substitutes in the regular DoW rulebook or from the Ogre Kingdoms rulebook.
I'd be curious as to what you think for hero selection and what the best combinations are due to the ability to take "heroes" in the RoR.
I think a rules update for DoW would be great, but I fear that it would not even make the army very much stronger. Actually I believe DoW really has some pretty good troop selections now. Too bad about the magic items - so we will just have to rely on RoR characters and tactics.
I like the amount of tactical options from so many army lists and additions. I also like the fact that more than any other army, you can find new ways and setups that have different themes and rely on different tactics.
As I see it, we rank the units just about the same (+/-1), and the rest is proberbly mostly playing style, as you said.
Now that you ask about characters from the RoR, here is a list of the individual point cost of a few of the popular characters from my calculations:
Beorg: 133 points, incl. 4+ ward save
Voland: 69 points (mercenary captain with the same equipent: 74 points) - you save 5 points!
Ricco: 52 ponts (MC with the same eq: 58 points) - you save 6 points!
Pirazzo: 54 points (MC with the same eq: 64 points) - you save 10 points!
Golgfag: About 110 points
Oglah Khan: 70 points (MC with about the save eq: 72 points) - you dont really save anything
As you can see, you tend to save points most of the times you choose RoR regiments. I dont know by how much, I would claim Beorg to be underpriced, but considering that a 4+ ward save normally costs 45 points, he is dead cheap, considering that his starts are way better than a mercenary general's.
As for a desent character setup, I think its a great idea to go magic heavy with DoW. My reasons are listed here:
1. Mages arent as dependent on magic items as meele characters. Sure they can be much better with them, but meele characters really dont have a punch without.
2. You cant really produce a desent mercenary general that contributes enough to the fighting, so why even try? You will be better of with RoR units for that extra punch in combat, and they dont even fill up your character slots.
3. In an army that has sufficient firepower, light cavalry and skirmishers to hold a pretty desent gunline, combining that with strong magic can really be devastating. Dwarves cant do that, for an example.
I suggest a magic heavy character setup looking like this:
Hireling wizard lord
From RoR: Voland and Beorg for combat prowness.
The Republican Guard can also do a desent job, but Ricco cant really deal with the enemy's lord character the way that Beorg can.
The thing is, when the enemy sees a magic heavy army the believe that they just have to get into close combat to beat them. I bet they will be surpriced when they suddently face combat with several powerful heroes.
I think they should make a Regiments of renown and dogs of war codex, that would be cool, as pikes are a nice addition and should be reintroduced.
+ The whole concept of hiring extra troops is historical and there for also a nice addition.
but with just a few updates (as mentioned) and maybe a dozen exclusive magic items and updated common magic items, the DoW could be a real threat. They could be the Gamer/Modeller's army, because they would still require sound tactics, movement and a little luck and since the models are all but gone, they are still a modeller/customizer's dream. They could be our own little secret army that we feel we are priviledged to play.
just a little side note on the whole magic heavy thing. there is always the albion mages, specifically the dark emmisary who is a HERO level 4 mage of course he uses a rare choice but still
spambot kill tally: 79
[16:19] <@Alzer> Arky's right though
[16:20] <@Kaiser-> I know he is.
[16:20] <@Kaiser-> He usually is.
[16:20] <@Kaiser-> Sometimes it's intentional.
[00:01] <+zubus> i love you, ya skirt wearin nothern monkey! ^_^
I dont really like them - expecially not the dark emmisaries.
The truthsayer has a better lore and could be worth it, but he is only level 3.
265 points is quite alot, considering that you can almost get two level 2 mages and a cannon for the same price.