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I'm thinking of starting a DOW army, and having read all the rules on Pikes they appear to kick butt at first glance, but then I got thinking about it...
Why would enemy ever charge these guys???
All the bonuses of 4ranks striking first would never actually be realised because that is declaring a charge into your own grave.
So, in your experienced gaming, fellow forum-ers, how do these guys actually play out??
Most armies will have some fast guys to get a flank charge or will just stand off until you charge them.
Granted, Duellists can skirmish and guard pike flanks, but these guys might die to some spell/shooting/charge and then the pike flank is open to the next wave. I think a clever enemy will exploit this and pikes will never actually get any piking done. Given the manouvreability of a man, compared to most others, enemy will either be better at moving, or equal to your pikemen (unless they are dwarfs).
Anyway, comments appreciated.
Are they 4 ranks or 3? I thought it was 3..
Remember, when they charge themselves, they get one less rank than the maximum when they're still (so either 2 or 3, depending on the rules of pikes) they're not reduced to one rank attacking, this means when you charge you get quite a lot of attacks then in the next round, you get the extra rank and even more attacks.
yikes thats a lot of charging pikes.
Ok. My opinion has changed.
Basically the enemy must act quick and flank them before they charge you. Right?
(I'll have to reread the rules for the ranks of pikes fighting)
Also take into consideration that you have xbowmen. Which outrange most people, making them have to come to you. They're strong also str 4, and fire every round unlike handgunners and outrange them as well ( 30 to 24 ). Set up a fire line and set your xbowmen with pike squads behind them you can do some damage. After they charge the Xbows you can sacrifice them for a stand and shoot counter measure or you can flee and hope they still run into your Pikes. Use your duellists on the flanks. Give them pistols they're skirmishers so you have a hard time shooting them and if you try to charge them they shoot you and then stand and shoot also your first round of combat with one attack at str 4 armor piercing and one normal attack with their hand weapons. Anyways, that's how they can run if you're smart. But then again maybe I'm just old school lol.
It dosen't really matter. If they don't charge your pikes you charge them. With 4 ranks of attack pike are good no matter how they get into close combat.
Keep in mind, though they have alot of attacks, they are low quality attacks (ws3, s3). I have used pikes in countless game, and they always dissappoint me. Don't think that I'm telling you not to take them, because I'd never play DoW without them, just don't get your hopes up with all those attacks.
Also, keep in mind, pikes absolutely suck against heavy calvary. Esp. Brettonian and Empire knights. They do pretty much rape medium and light cav tho.
And ironically, pikes were historically made to fight against heavy cavalry...
I can see how theoretically, a unit of heavy knights charging will still maul the pikes, but psychologically, your opponent is going to be afraid of their hype and not do it I think. They're more of a psychological unit than anything else. Warhammer isn't won by attacks, it is won by getting your units into the right position to get a high combat resolution.
Brettonian Knights vs. Block of Pikes
5x Brets Charge 20x Pikes
20 attacks from Pikes
2x bret 1x Gallant
Assuming both wound that's still 2 dead pikemen.
3x horses attacks
less then one wound
and chance to survive with 5 armor if they have heavy.
Pikes win by 3 with 2 ranks and outnumber (assuming both or neither have full command)
Empire Knights vs. Block of Pikes
5x Knights charge block of 20 Pikes
20 Pikes attacks
1 dead Knight
3x Knights 1x First Knight
Pikes win combat by 2 on average because of outnumber and ranks.
As you have demonstrated, all it takes is for a knight or 2 to go down before the lance hits home to win the round. beyond that, the knight revert to basic strength, and it's a peice meal for the pikes. They have a great impact against cavalry.Originally Posted by Nayra
on an historical note, it took more than just a few pikes to foil cavalry, but in the numbers of hundreds. Strength in numbers, and the current pike rules reflect that.
I Think pikes will be devastating in units of 20, in 5x4.