Dwarfs - 2000 - new to army, coming from ogres

[Grandmaster Angelus]

Hey guys.

Some feedback would be appreciated here. I am thinking of starting dwarfs and looking at running quite a shooty army with some good combat mixed in. Play against most types of armies, so would need to do well against all comers. Also this is rough throwdown list, as I have not finalised yet. Anyways....

Master engineer (wargear not sure)

Dwarf Warriors
30 x Dwarfs, Full Command, Shields

Longbeards
20 x Dwarfs, Full Command, Shields, Great weapons, Master rune of Grungi

Quarrellers
20 x Dwarfs, Full Command, Shields, Great weapons

Thunderers
20 x Dwarfs, Full Command

Cannon
Rune of Forging, Rune of Burning

Cannon
Rune of Forging, Rune of Reloading, Rune of Burning

Bolt Thrower
Engineer

Bolt Thrower
Engineer

Grudge Thrower
Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Penetrating, Rune of Burning

Flame Cannon (just cause I like the model)

Idea is the Longbeards deploy with warriors on one side and thunderers on other. Quarrellers other side of thunderers, and would form into fighting block when enemy closes. Otherwise it is shoot the crap out of everything, clean up with the longbeards, warriors and quarrellers in combat. I know it is light on characters and magic defense, but I am hoping after 1 turn os shooting I should have done some serious damage.

Would love to hear peoples thoughts and opinions. Also heard a rumour a RUMOUR I must say. That dwarfs may be suprised released this January.

[saltrock36]

Not bad for a first try but there are some big holes.

Firstly i would look at dropping the Mengineer for now, at least until you get some propper characters in there and find you have some points spare.

I would look at some Magic defence so you need to decide if your having a Rune Lord with a Thane BSB or a Dwarf Lord with Runesmith and BSB. I would favour the second option personaly. I prefer the first option but thats only because i like to run an anvil in games (not somthing i recomend unless you have points and know how to play it), but a Rune lord tooled up to the hilt with defensive runes and spell eater and spellbreaker rune should do. Thane BSB with him and at the end you may even have points for your engineer.

On any model with a GW, drop the shield. You cannot use it in combat and 1pt isnt worth +1 to your armour against shooting these days. your better off with more dwarfs.

Drop bo Bolt Throwers. they are nice looking models but will bring very little to your game. you have 2 runed cannons, which is good enough with the Grudge Thrower.

I used to love the Falme Cannon, but drop it. I cant stress this enough. It will never make back the point you pay for it. If you dont expload, your looking at maybe (if people are stupid enough to get close) 1 good shot, 2 shots all together in a game. its range is too low since they changed it. Take an organ gun. S5 auto hit shots is wonderful. make the most of it before it gets changed (which it will) in the next army book. I used to take a flame cannon all the time as you used to be able to hit people on turn 1 and make them panic and flee off the table, but since it got changed to a fire thrower and lost its range it has become vastly overpointed. Its a Fire thrower in the BRB, and cant move and shoot, so if im thinking right, the best range you can get out of it is only going to be 18" (roll of a 10 on artilary dice +8" template). Once again swap it for the cheaper organ gun.

I would love for dwarfs to be out in Jan, but i wouldnt say its likely. This week a siege expansion for warhammer is comming out so we will probs see 2 months of that rubbish being pumped out. VC are somehow meant to be out next anyway. Somehow.

Hope this helps.


-Saltrock-

[Finchht09]

you have alot of flaming machines. Unless there are multiple units with regen out there, you only need one flaming projectile. Once hit by a flaming attack, the unit loses regen for the rest of the phase. So if there is a regen threat, just fire your flaming one first, then all the rest are in the clear. yes, there's a chance you'll miss or misfire, and its cheap to make them flaming, but if its not doing anything for you (like the comment about shields above) you can use the points elsewhere.

I would also suggest getting rid of the bolt throwers and flame cannon. If you're after a very shooty list, throw in 1-2 organ guns, or perhaps a second grudge thrower with accuracy and 2x penetrating. A S5 stone thrower that can reroll the scatter die (meaning 56% chance to score a direct hit) can be devistating. If you do find the points for a master engineer, keep him close to this machine, such that if you don't get the "hit", you can always reroll artillary and hope for a 2, so you'll still hit something.

On characters, I have to agree with Saltrock. Master engineers are great in shooting lists, but not at the expense of magic defense and good character staying power. I would go for the runelord BSB combo. maybe even scrap the BSB and go for runelord and runesmith. with the amount of shooting you'll put out, if you focus fire there shouldn't be much left hitting your lines. you really shouldn't need a BSB. Magic defense is a must though. With the runelord/smith combo, you'll have D6+3 dice. It'll also open the door for multiple "dispell scroll" runes. Dwarfs are the only race that can take more than one "dispel scroll" now. Abuse that privilage. Give your runelord some defensive runes (R. Stone, MR. Gromril, R. Preservation, etc) and a scroll, then give your smith another scroll or two. magic is no longer a problem for you. you'll probably be on equal footing on dice, and you'll have 3 scrolls if something seems to high to toss dice at. You no longer fear magic at all. Shoot the crap out of them, focusing on the magic users. Use stone throwers and organ guns to thin out the ranks, then cannon snipe when there are too few models for look out sir rolls. Killing mages will not only put a big dent in their game plan, but mages are typically expensive too. good point return.

You can find the points for the above suggestions by getting rid of shields, runes of burning, and dropping a few dwarfs off your blocks. You can also lose the full command on your shooting units. really, you don't want anything on your thunderers/quarrellers. The only exception would be to keep the standards for blood and gory missions, and even thats pushing it. without them you'd still have 4 points (break point 2). So as long as you don't lose both units (or general) you'd still be fine for blood and gory missions.

[nigelboyette]

hey salt rock why do you think the organ gun will be changed from what is now and if so how will it change?