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Hi everyone. This is my first post here but I've spent the last couple of days reading a lot of the other threads and I thought i'd like to join in and get any advice you guys might have for me.
I used to play WHFB (and 40k, Gorkamorka, Necromunda, etc.) quite a lot as a teenager but as I got to uni age (and then moved to Australia for 4 years to study even more) I got totally out of it. Now I'm home again, I've dug out my stuff and have a couple of friends keen to have a game.
Sadly, I'm currently flat broke and as such I can only really use the models I have. This is a bit of a restriction on my army choice, but fortunately the dwarf troop choices haven't changed too much in the last decade apparently (unlike my poor Necron army, which is now somewhat defunct...) so hopefully I can field something with this. I'm also reluctant to buy too many more models before the new dwarf book comes out (whenever that may be) - although I am tempted to try & find the cash for a battallion as I feel I could use some warriors.
This army list is my first try at a 2000 point friendly game army. I don't like designing an army to beat one specific race, but it's likely I will play a savage orc horde first and most frequently, so might be worth bearing that in mind. I've been reading a lot of the comments in other similar posts in this forum and I've been chatting to my Orc friend as I have had to do quite a lot of reading about the new 8th ed rules.
NB. I have some odd models. Odd and old - the models I am using in this army for my warriors were originally bought to use as ironbreakers about 10 years ago. As such they're armed with hand weapons & shields. I think from the reading I've been doing that GW are almost uniformly more useful in 8th ed, but my friend has agreed that as long as I tell him they're GW then I can still use them. Trying to keep the rest of the models as accurate as possible....
My basic idea is that, as I am low on melee models (apart from 20 slayers which I believe are pretty useless at the moment??) I have mostly shooty stuff, so this is a bit of a "gunline" army (is that what it's called? ).
Here goes nothing:
2000 points total
Lords 325 16.3% Heroes 322 16.1% Core 858 42.9% Special 235 11.8% Rare 260 13.0%
1 Lord, shield bearers, Runic Axe(RoMight, MRoSwiftness, RoStriking), Runic armour(MRoAdamant, RoStone), Runic ring(MRoSpite) - 325 pts - [This guy sits in the middle of my warrior horde, bashing heads where possible]
1 Thane, GW, Runic armour(RoStone) - 74 pts - [Sits next to my lord, not sure if necessary or not?]
1 Runesmith, GW, Runic ring(MRoBalance, RoSpellbreaking) - 149 pts - [I originally had him as a runelord, but realised I didn't need it. Will sit in one of the ranged units]
1 Runesmith, GW, Runic ring(RoSpellbreaking) - 99 pts - [Sits in the other randed unit, offers more dispel dice]
27 Warriors, GW, FC - 295 pts - [These guys house my lord & thane to make a 3x10 horde that will sit back and try to attack whatever comes close]
19 Quarrellers, GW, FC - 272 pts - [Decided on the gw as they might have to get into combat at some point?]
19 Thunderers, FC - 291 pts - [Not much to say here, 2 ranks of 10 with a runesmith in them]
1 Cannon, RoForging, RoBurning - 130 pts - [Burning in case of trolls etc]
1 Grudgethrower, RoAccuracy - 105 pts - [Solid choice, plus I have the really old model with the 6-man crew and the pig on a spit roast It's a Goblobba!]
1 Organ Gun - [I used to love this and I have one ]
1 Gyrocopter - [Just in case I need something fast moving, plus the steam is good against low T targets like gobbos, right?]
So that's that! I hope I haven't completely missed the mark - all (constructive) criticism gratefully welcomed.
Nice to meet you all
I think you should try and scrape together enough monies to get a battalion, because you still need more melee I think. I highly doubt that GW will change Dwarves that much that what you buy now will be unusable in the next book, considering that Dwarves have remained largely the same for a long time. I know that my Dwarves are missing those large melee blocks.
Anyway, as for your list...its good, I like most of it. I would suggest a couple of changes, but the majority will stay the same.
The lord most likely doesn't need all them weapon runes, a gw would suffice. Could use some of them points for the rune that makes him immune to poison and kb.
Make the thane your BSB, because it is well worth it.
A naked master engineer who hangs within 3 inches of your Canon and grudge throwers can help, but you most likely won't have points.
I can understand running the warriors in horde, but one of Dwarves best stats is ld, and so steadfast for us is brilliant. Only having three ranks will make that harder. Remember step-up and supporting attacks means you will always get at least 10 attacks on a 5 frontage unit.
Gws on the Quarrelers is brilliant, but most people don't like thunderers. I love them, and use them over Quarrelers every time.
Cannon and grudge thrower are both solid chooses.
Organ is really, really good. Just hope the artillery dice like you.
I would drop the http and use the slayers to be honest. Use you warriors unit to soak a charge, then flank charge that enemy with the slayers and watch them mince whatever they hit.
You could always ask your friends if you could sub in the slayers as something else like longbeards or hammerers, just to give them a test to see if you like that style.
May the Dragon of Unhappiness never fly up your bottom.
Hi Raganok. Thanks for your advice. I'm glad I didn't totally miss the mark at least Means reading the other posts in the forum was worthwhile!
I was in games workshop today, but I really couldn't bring myself to spend the £55 on the battallion just yet. It's my birthday in a month and I'm on the job hunt as we speak so if I get a few games going and enjoy it then I'll definitely invest.
I will review the weapons runes on the lord. I wanted to give him "always strike first" so I might get some hits off before he gets battered by a savage orc boss, but as long as he's tough enough I guess he'll get to hit back anyway.
I would love to make the thane my BSB, but at the moment again I can't even really afford £10 for the model. My current "thane" model is Drong the Hard from years ago, so no banner attached. I could probably add one if I wanted to though.... definitely worth considering. I wont worry about the master engineer just yet, but maybe in a 2500+ points battle it'd be worth it. I'll add him to the "when I can afford a battallion" list
Will consider the formation of the warriors... with 30 I can either go 3x10 or 5x6 if I don't want horde. We'll see. I guess a couple of games will show me whether one works better than the other. I also love thunderers! I think they've been buffed in this version compared to the last time I used them as well so happy with that. They're my only unpainted unit at the moment too so I just splashed out for some black undercoat and I will read through a few painting guides and see if I can actually get a unit I'm proud of on the table. Haha.
Sorry, perhaps this is a noob question but what's http? Is that "Gyro" with autocorrect? If that's what you meant I was considering doing that, but I would need to find a few more points too. I might be able to prune the Lord's runic weapon and the gyro and squeeze out enough for the Slayers to give me that extra bit of melee I need. I think they would be very useful against orcs at least.
Thanks again for the advice. I guess I just need to have a couple of games and give it a try!
EDIT: Just updated the list to the following. Do you think it's an improvement, or are my characters now too weak? Had to drop the gyro and 2 dwarfs from each of the ranged units to fit in the slayers, but hopefully 20 maddwarfs with axes will make up for it! (Will also have to check my mate doesn't mine the 1 point over.... otherwise something else has to go, lol).
2001 points total
Lords 286 14.3%
Heroes 318 15.9%
Core 804 40.2%
Special 473 23.7%
Rare 120 6.0%
1 Lord, shield bearers, GW, Runic armour(MRoAdamant, RoStone, RoPreservation), Runic ring(MRoSpite) - 286 pts
1 Thane, BSB, Runic armour(RoStone) - 70 pts
1 Runesmith, GW, Runic ring(MRoBalance, RoSpellbreaking) - 149 pts
1 Runesmith, GW, Runic ring(RoSpellbreaking) - 99 pts
27 Warriors, GW, FC - 295 pts
17 Quarrellers, GW, FC - 246 pts
17 Thunderers, FC - 263 pts
1 Cannon, RoForging, RoBurning - 130 pts
1 Grudgethrower, RoAccuracy - 105 pts
20 Slayers, SB&M - 238 pts
1 Organ Gun
Thanks again for the help!
Last edited by sagramore; January 9th, 2012 at 16:31. Reason: Updated list:
First thing i noticed is your army is too character heavy for 2000pts (IMO). Back in 7th ed you could manage it because the general size of dwarf units rarely made it above 20 models, but with the unit size escalation in 8th ed the points to get the extra models at 2000pts comes from sacrificing the 4th Dwarf character.
I wouldnt bother with a Thane unless you were going to make him a BSB with runed banner, or your lord was a Rune Lord. For the moment lets consider this character to be spare points.
I tend to take a Rune lord more these days but i do love taking dwarf lords, they are very good when tooled up for a specific purpose, otherwise they are a bit of a points sink with runes all over the place. You want to consider what you have him for. Is it;
i) to not die, simply issue chalenges and be runed up to soak damage away from your unit.
ii) a monster killer, sat in wait with some brutal runes to tear apart big monsters that get into your unit.
iii) or a cheap and cheerful happy slapper, someone who is there to help stack up some combat res for your unit whilst at the same time not taking up lots of points. (this is my favourite option)
I often (when i need to) take a Lord with GW, Shield Bearers, Ro Stone, Mro Spite and Ro Presivation (i think this is rite, Immune to Kb and Poison). Now this guy wont go toe to toe with a geared up chaos lord but he can see his own against nearly all units and is good for his cost. You have a 1+ armour save with a 4+ ward, Immune to Kb and Poison) and 4 S6 attacks. The one thing i ocasionaly change i i know i need magical attacks for regen/etherial/forest spirit lists is to spend 25 points on 2 weapon runes so my GW has flaming magical attacks. You can over think you lord wanting him to be a combat monster whos as tough as old leather to kill but you soon find your spending over 300 points on him. My rule of thumb is to keep my dwarf lords under 300pts at 2000pt games and it has worked great.
On your Rune Smiths, i would drop Rune of Balance, go for a set up like this;
Rune Smith 1) MRo Spell Eating
Rune Smith 2) Ro Spell Breaking
This way you have 2 dispel scrolls like you had, except 1 of them is able to destroy that nasty spell you never want to see like purple sun. Its a risk at only 50% of it destroying it, but it makes your RS cheaper and once you have used the Ro Spell eating/Breaking your not as worried about loosing yout RS where as MRo Balance you want to keep him alive as long as possible.
Will post on your units a bit later on.
Hi saltrock. Again, thanks for the comments.
I would agree with what you said about the Dwarf King - If you look in the updated list I posted (the post above yours) I've done almost exactly what you said and he's sitting pretty on 286 pts with very similar runes to those you suggested. I'm quite happy with that.
About the Thane/BSB - I agree it's a few extra points, but until I actually have a game I'm not sure whether he's worth it or not! If I remove him I could bulk the two ranged units back to 20 instead of 18. Might be a better option?
Point taken on the Rune Smiths. I will definitely consider swapping to a MRoSpell Eating rather than the Balance & Breaking.
In my very first run of this army list I had a rune lord, but I really wanted to use the anvil and I just don't think 2k is enough points to do that "properly" - I am happy to be proven wrong though. I love the anvil
Look forward to hearing what you have to say on the units.
Alot of people argue that a BSB for a dwarf army is less worth the points you pay for its effects compared to other armies, and that is because of our excellent Ld value of 9 basic, and 10 within 12 of the General. In other amries it is essential with low Ld as you vastly increase your armies staying power being able to reroll any failed Ld test. At Ld 9-10, Dwarfs are just as likely to pass there tests without a bsb as an army with low Ld with a bsb and thats the argument against. I personaly dont leave home without a bsb if im taking enough points to warrent a lord option (generaly 2000pts as im 7th ed to the core). Its one thing to say "im Ld 10 so stick it", but you can always roll 11 or 12 as so often will happen, and when your bigg unit runs away and is run down you will whish you had a bsb.
In your case though, for practice at least, i would drop the Thane. Normaly i would say drop a Rune Smith but untill you find what works for you. at 2250pts you might be best off with a BSB.
Rite to your units.
OMG drop the slayers!!! the one thing they excell at at the moment is dieing and giving away points. People know they have no armour, and they know they are unbreakable, so you will only get range damage at them or a super elite unit which will kill your unit fast with a vast number of attacks. Trust me, for now, slayers are a no go. The best part about slayers is multiple champions but as thats the one thing not in the unit its even more reason to drop them.
What you want is a nice solid unit of hammerers instead. These guys will be the meat and veg of your list. Now yes they only have a 5+ save (dont bother with shields), but WS5 and S6 attacks will mash up your enemy. If you feel you dont have the points for Hammerers at the moment, what alot of people do is upgrade their core unit of Dwarf Warriors, into longbeards. Im not a fan of this. They are more expensive than hammerers and although immune to panic they are not stubborn. How ever they do fill that core unit requirement.
I lik to take a big unit of Dwarf Warriors with GWs (25-30 ) and the same again in Hammerers (probably 20 for you at 2000pts). At this point give them the MRo Grungni for a ward from all ranged attacks and also for units within 6" of the banner (might be 3"). Normaly i give this to my bsb meaning i can give the Ro Battle and the "take a Ld test on one dice" rune, but without a bsb go for MRo Grungni.
As for your other units, i dont take thunderers anymore, as id rather have GWs and a bit longer range. At 2250pts i run one big unit of 30 Quarrelers in 3 ranks, 30 warriors and 30 Hammerers. But thats an anvil list and doesnt realy matter here. Try to boost them up a bit to 20, but if you cant do that drop the units down to 10-12 with a musician, and see if you can make 3 units. Basicaly the units may end up smaller, but it means you have a chance to spread your firepower a bit more, and you can use them to flank charge the enemy who engage your large blocks. This is why i like Quarrellers because when they go in they have the options of GWs.
War machines seem fine. Glad you dropped he Gyro. I used to run one al the time but now you can march be just passing a ld test if an enemy is within 8", (often rerolled due to a bsb) they just arent worth the points you pay for them at the moment.
Hope this helps a bit.
Yeah I will think hard about the thane, BSB and 2nd rune smith. I am not sure whether I need the extra dispel dice or not yet as I haven't played any 8th ed at all (or 7th I think for that matter...)
The slayers weren't in the original list, but Raganok suggested their inclusion which is why I found the points for them. I can kind of respond to your comments about hammerers here too - the problem I have right now is money (isn't it always true?) so in a way I'm working more on a "what is the best list I can make out of what I have" and "are there any GLARING GLARING holes that a few ££ could plug. As I mentioned in my earlier post my first purchase for this army when I do find some money will be the battalion to get an extra cannon and then I can also make up the warriors in the box either as longbeards or clip off the weapon heads & put hammer heads on to make hammerers.
The thunderers are kind of there because I like them, and because if I left them out I'd be completely short of anything aside from trying to make a 1000 pt army out of just warriors and quarrellers
Thanks for all the tips though, it's all being noted and once I have some more cash I will certainly be getting some more warriors, quarrellers and either longbeards or hammerers. Once I get those extra models I can expand to 2500-3000 point armies and play around a lot more with things like a BSB and runelord.
Proxy is your friend. just use any model on the same base size as whatever you want as long as you let your opponent know. There i no point playing an army with units you wont want just because you have the models for them. Proxy the ones you want until you can afford/be bothered to buy them. I had a friend who used goblins from his O&G as zombies for 2 years before he could be bothered to buy the zombie models and that was only becasue he was taking it to a tournament.
Yeah I have done that in the past, and I am sure I will do it again I'm already doing a minor proxy as all my warriors have hw&shields but I'm using GW. I know I can do that, but there's something satisfying about fielding an army with the correct models
Have tweaked for the last time, will have to play with the army and get a feel for it before I do much more I think.
Thanks again for all the help!
Now just got to try & paint my thunderers..... haven't painted anything for MANY years and I really want to make a better job of them. Been reading the painting guides so we'll see
Just wanted to thank you guys for the advice! I went with the Lord, one runesmith, a thane BSB, 35 warriors with GW, 20 quarrellers with GW, 20 thunderers, a canon, grudgethrower and organ gun. And, it was a close battle, but I beat my Orc & Goblin mate in 5 turns
The thunderers performed very well in fact, destroying a unit of boarboys! The crossbowmen weren't as hot, but I think that was dice rolls... they at least held up a unit of 50 orcs for a turn or two before my warriors could flank charge.
Anyway, it was good fun! I will definitely be carrying on and will aim to find some cash to buy me some hammerers and a battallion for some extra warriors/quarrellers.
EDIT: A little photo of the battle as it was started. Not the most attractive of games (just moved house, so was very limited with the "board" and neither of us owned any terrain so I managed to mock up some hills, a swamp, some walls, and a "forest" out of polystyrene roof tiling. I will improve & paint these sometime in the future as they worked well.
Last edited by sagramore; January 13th, 2012 at 12:15. Reason: Add photo.