Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Good day everyone!
I have been reading a fair number of Army List posts and of course the main forum. My issues is I am brand new to Fantasy... never played it or even seen many games. I am an experienced 40k Ork player so I have an idea of how to apply strategy etc etc... but very little experience with Fantasy. I bought the below army for a very good price and hoping to make a good set of lists for 1000/1500/2000/and 2500 as well as take on all advise on how to make it better.
Any and all help, thoughts, ideas, and opinions on creating a basic Army would be VERY appreciated!
Newly Purchased Army:
1 master engineer
1 ranger lord
60 warriors where 17 are painted
18 grey beards 16 are painted
35 thunderers 26 are painted
12 miners primmed
10 slayers painted
1 deamon slayer painted
3 cannons painted
3 organ guns painted
all but three crew are painted
Thorek Ironbrow (painted
one pack of cannon where you can choose to be a organ gun or a cannon
and the codex and also trays as well
Ranger lord? Bugman perhaps, does he have both hands up? Axe in one and mug in the other?
You might as well put the slayers on the shelf because, at the moment they are pretty useless, especially with a unit that small.
That is alot of thunderers. Most people like quarrellers over thunderers, because of range and access to great weapons, but I like the stopping power of the guns.
You should be able to craft a nice lost out of that lot, with the addition of some hammerers to improve on it.
May the Dragon of Unhappiness never fly up your bottom.
Thanks for the comments Raganok!
- I have been looking at Hammers and they are pretty much next on the list to buy... especially seeing how they have GWpn, HWpn, and HArm. How do you typically run your Hammers in a 2500p list? I am considering running them with a Lord in a unit of 20 with the shield upgrade and a Banner... thoughts?
- I am looking to trade around some of my Artillery by swapping a Grunge Thrower for one of my Organ Guns.
- I am looking to expand my Grey Beards up to 30.
What else should I be looking to make this list more competitive in the 2500+ points level?
Hammerers at the moment work best when you run them cheap, that is to say without the shield upgrade. It does mean you will get a 4+ save vs shooting but in the grand scheme of things you would be better spending those points elsewhere. at 2000pts i would consider running them 20-25 strong, with the runic banner of some sorts.
Longbeards are good as they fill a core role if you have a lord option, and have good strngth and WS. The problem is that per model they are a bit epensive. Off the top of my head they are more expensive than a basic Hammerer, and a Hammerer doesnt need to pay for his GW. They are stil good for your army, but i just wouldnt have them in a unit over 20 untill you get to 2500pts. Give them shields, and MRo Grungni on their Banner and sit them in the middle of your line to stop units running from panic. Having said that, if you have a BSB you can already reroll panic tests which is one reason LB arent quite as good as they used to be. Still solid as a core though.
If you are using LB as your anvil, then you want all the warriors you have to be equiped with just GWs. No point in shields at the moment, just big units maybe 30 strong all with GWs.
I would in a 2000pts game drop an cannon for a grudge thrower, idealy i have 2 grudge throwers and 1 cannon with all the hordes about these days. I would start off with just 1 organ gun and then if you have points left over add the other one. They are good, but if they blow up first time you shoot them (which will chances be turn 2-3) then theres no coming back for them. A number of times i have had my organ guns blow up on the first shot, its just life.
I would probably split the thunders into units of 10-12, this way you can target prioritise a bit better with them. I much preffer using my Quarrelers, with GWs, and full command in a unit of 24, and i hav 2 units of them. They shoot 48 shots 30" per turn at S4, then reform before they get charged into 5 wide blocks weilding Gws. Now Thunderers dont have Gws as an option so im not sure how well the same tactic will work for taking them in a big unit like that.
Thanks Saltrock for the great input, and certainly a lot of it has gone into consideration towards my desired 2000 and 2500p lists
Here are some quick questions that have come up while reading/building... they are misc:
1- Can a Master Enginer Entrench more then one gun per game, is it on per turn ?
2- If a Master Engineer is stationed 3" away from three Cannons, can they use his BS for all three, and still get to re-roll up to 1 Misfire?
3- Do you take bricks of 40xWarriors as 10x4 to get Horde bonus, or go with more conservative 8x5 ???
4- Can you cover three Units with the MRoGrungni if it is centered in a smaller GB anvil Unit ? OR in your experience does it only typically cover two Units?
Here is my current 2000p list that takes into consideration the models I own:
Lord: GW + RoStone + RoResistance +RoMight + 2x RoFurry + RoFire
RuneSmith: GW + MRoBalance + RoSpellBreaking
35xWarriors: Shields + FCmd
20xGreyBeards: GW + FCmd + MRoGrungni
20x Thunders: Musician
Cannon: RoBurning + RoForging
2x Organ Guns
So I realize this is a heavy artillery list... since I am short on my desired Hammers and WArriors w/GW, I must make do...
All of your points, suggestions, comments on the list, or answers to my noob misc Q's are all greatly appreciated!
1) Master Engineer, choose a war machine at the begining of the game once its set up. I used to entrench my anvil until it was strongly sugested that i didnt. Think that was back when it had some mention of it being a war machine but was a while ago.
2) If a Master Engineer is 3" away from multiple war machines they can all benifit from his abilities, but im not sure if only one per turn can use it. Its in the Errata FAQ section for dwarfs on the GW homepage but i cant get to ti this mo cos work computers are playing up today.
On a side note, I think the Master engineer alows you to reroll the distance of the cannonballs bounce for a cannon. To fire a cannon, you say where you want to shoot, i recoment 4"-6" infront of the target unit (as you then hit the spot + a roll on the artilary dice), You then roll the artilary dice again to see how far it rolls. Anything in the roll distance is hit. So lets say you place a marker 4" away from a target, you roll 6 on the articalry dice putting you 2" into the target where it hits, you then roll again where you could get a another 6", anything in that distance is hit.
Long way of saying that only Bolt Throwers use BS, cannons dont.
3) I like my warriors 5-6 wide, and deep. Extra ranks seems to work best for dwarfs. Hordes are ok, but you can only hit what your in contact with anyway.
4) I have had 3 units all 5 models wide walking side by side up a table with MRo Grungni in the center giving them all the 5+ ward. Its good in theory and works when your running towards a gunline with an anvil to back you up, but it means the units dont have the room to manouver and are vulnerable to flank attacks if your not careful. If you field a sit back army it also works well in the same way but it does mean your clumped together a bit at times. 2 units you can easily cover, 3 if you need to.
First thing to note with your list is your lords magic weapon. If you are taking a runic weapon which is a great weapon, you have to take MRo Kragg the Grim. Without this rune the gw looses its +2 Strength for being a great weapon. (it was introduced to make it more balanced). You also can only have 3 runes per item, you have 4 on your weapon. I would also go for a ward save on him so he can take a hit. i would go with somthing like;
Lord: gw, MRo Spite (4+ ward), MRo Gromril (1+ save), Ro Resistance (think its immune to killing blow and poison), (and then run which lets you reroll armour saves which i think is) Ro Presivation (but i always get this and Ro Resistance mixed up).
This lord will sit and take hits all day. Its a similar build to what i take on my Anvil Rune Lord. If you want magical attacks to deal with ethereal or regen you will also have to take MRo Kragg the Grim and Ro Fire.
Rune Smith seems ok.
I would give the Thunderers a try as you have them, but i prefere using them in units of 10. Have a go both ways and see what works best for you. In a unit of 20 it might be worth getting them a banner if they end up in combat alot.
Put the Rune of Burning on one cannon. If you hit somthing like a hydra or any unit with regen on it with the flaming attacks of the cannon first, then for all of the shooting phase that unit looses regen. You can them use your other units on it to kill it easier.
Rune of reloading is also very useful on cannons as you can fire every turn, even after a missfire if i remember correctly. It may mean just if you loose crew but il have o check its wording. It may be worth proxying a Grudge Thrower for a few games and drop a cannon for now. 2 cannons should be enough and the Grudge Thrower will help massively with taking out larger units.
Organ guns are fine. They work good in conjunction with thunderers as both have the same range. doesnt matter so much now that you can premeasure everything but it used to be vital to have them with each other. Now they are ok on the flanks but dont expect miricles from them alone, as they tend to roll misfires and 2s when you need a big roll. This is one reason i use them with thunderers as if the organ gun does fluff, then theres a little backup.
Fantastic Feedback once again Saltrock!!!
It just happens that a good friend of mine had an older edition Dwarf Army and was looking to sell off most of it.
I was able to pickup:
20x Warriors with GW
1x Lord with Shield Bearers
1x Grudge Thrower
2x Bolt Throwers
So this is excellent news! I will substitute one Cannon for one Grudge Thrower and the Thunders for 20x Quarellers with GW. I think I will pass on the IB's for now... in favour of using the GreyBeards... Although I have been toying with the thought of dropping the GB's and the Master Engineer for IB's with a Thane BSB....
I have also decided to re-tune the Lord as well so that he best fits in with the list as you have mentioned. I am realizing that if I simply keep the Lord with his normal Hand Weapon and then tune him up as follows: Might/ Smite/ Resistance/ Stone and Shield Bearers he gets to keep his attacks at I4... which isnt terrible, and doesnt cost me the points for a GW + MRoKraggtheGrimm. This brings his save to 2+ with that nice 're-roll'.... saving the extra points for the wpn runes. Although I dont get the Spite (4++) which is really nice, I think he will still fair quite well against most enemies. That is of course as long as there arent many armour ignoring attacks???? ( I am used to 40k power weapons...)
Sooo how does that look now? I think with the new models I just picked up I should be able to make a fun, shooty, and yet some what competitive list
Last edited by Glockster83; April 2nd, 2012 at 23:37.
There is no way to get a ward save in combat is there? Aside from the 6+ Parry offered by Shields?
I was thinking the MRoGrugni would be good.... but it doesnt help me in combat, only shooting...
Saltrock's advice is good and solid, all that he said applies. Although, I have heard of people taking hordes of GW armed dwarfs, the reason being you get a lot of S5 attacks (30 v horde formation, 15 vs 5 wide). Yes you'll loose dwarfs but that many S5 WS4 attacks can and will hurt a lot of units. And if needs be, you can reform into deeper ranks to get the steadfast bonus.
As too your lord, in my opinion a dwarf lord should always be on shieldbearers. The extra S4 attacks and +2 save is more than reason enough. Combined with a RoStone has a 1+ save. Add in the RoPreservation and Resistance with the MRoSpite he now has a 1+ re-rollable save, with a 4++ ward and immunity to KB. He is hard. And this way he can have a GW still, without runes though.
In the current edition Ironbreakers are just not worth their points. They have lost out to the parry rule giving them a 2+ save. S4, 3+ and a 6++ isn't that tough in this edition. You'd be better off going for units with GWs and getting more of them.
In my opinion every army should have a BSB. they are very invaluable these days. The ability to re-roll psychology and break tests is amazing, it can keep your units in the fight longer. Also the +1 CR is helpful. If you take him, make him hard to kill - the better load out I have seen is: MRoGromril, RoResistance, RoPreservation and a RoFire. 1+ save, immunity to KB and re-roll saves. The RoFire is because he goes at I order and is likely to score a wound or two, this will remove regen on the unit (if they have it) allowing your heavy hitters - the GW dwarfs - to cause more wounds.
Thanks for the input Kuffy!
I had used my Lord on SB's with the MRoSmite and RoMight against a WoC army... and of course they got matched up against two T4 Blocks throughout the game, where those 90+ points of runes did absolutely nothing for me.... I think this time around I will go with a GW instead... as the +2S would do much better in most situations.