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Everyone where i play says dwarfs are too beefy and are broken. A couple of people have refused to play my dwarfs, and my list isnt even broken. I just wanted to know if you guys got the same thing where you play.
That's right, llamas can parachute.
What most people see is that dwarf weaknesses are made up for with their strong points. For example, dwarves have movement 3 so they are bad at charging. Instead they have some of the best shooting units in the game to make you want to get into combat with them. They have high toughness and good armor and leadership to be able to withstand the charge and hold their ground. Dwarves don't get to cast magic spells, but they get extra dispell dice and cooler magic items than many other armies with their custom runes. Also, the anvil casts spell in the shooting phase, meaning that it can't even be dispelled by their opponent.
Does all of this make dwarves unbeatable? The simple answer is no, it doesn't. It is easy to outmaneuver a dwarf army and use your speed to your advantage against them. Their troops are more expensive than most armies so they will often be outnumbered at the start. Dwarves play differently than most armies and that makes it hard for some people to switch gears. Dwarves may be tough to beat, but it is not impossible by any means.
The premise that dwarfs are broken is usually one held by players just getting in to the hobby. Dwarfs are strong, there is no doubt about it, but are not unbeatable. Two friends might start the game simultaneously; one goes for dwarfs and the other might opt for the Druchii. Now I would guess that in the opening few games the dwarf player will win because they require less guile to play than a lot of other armies out there.
Of course there are still excellent dwarf tacticians out there. One such player is Arklite, who has written extensively about dwarfen tactics and has often surprised me with some of the ingenious rune combinations and uses he comes up with.
I guess I would sum up by saying that Dwarfs are easy to break (it doesn't take a genius to write a gunline) but aren't broken as a whole.
Dwarfs are by no means broken. We do have 2 powerhouse units in our standard warriors and in our Thunderers and our armory is beyond compare because it it fully customizable, but we pay big points for this and have laughable movement. Nearly every army in the game can outmanuver us, and in a game where flanking, panic tests and break tests are present that is a huge disadvantage.
Tell those players to suck it up. A tough opponent is not a reason to throw in the towel or refuse to fight.
The only honorable options left to we combatants is seppuku or semantics...which amount to the same thing really.
C'mon now. You know that the dwarf special character on the anvil is broke as swearing is bad in any dwarf army.
Last edited by Sammy the Squib; September 12th, 2007 at 15:22.
A normal, balanced, friendly Dwarf list is in no way broken. However, they are one of the easiest armies to break for powergaming and tournements, along with Wood Elves.
As if the Anvil isnt bad enough sometimes, they have the Special character who gives the base to an almost unstoppable army.
Dwarf gunlines are increadibly broken, as they have the best warmachines, and can easily make their cannons immune to Misfires, as well as doing D6 wounds... etc. Then S7 bolt throwers, and filling your lines out with Thunderers it just gets dirty.
Their basic warriors are the same cost as skellies, but with far better stats and basic Ld which means the fear cost is not balanced.
Also their rune system means they can get far better magic items than most other armies, and at a cheaper cost. Example, Dwaves can get +1A, +1S, and striking 1st. For Tomb Kings to get the same kind of upgrade, they would need to be able to take 2 magic weapons, and be able to use both simultaneously, and its more expensive than the single dwaven combo.
Basically even if you try not to break them, they are still one of the toughest opponants out there, and if you ever start trying to break them, then you better start playing at tournrments, as you wont find many friendly games.
Latest armybook made outflanking a bit more harder because of the oath stone, I need 2/3 lances of Bretonnian Knights to break such a unit(Yes I know Bretonnians can also be rather broken ). Its basicly charging a rock if the Dwarf players if experienced enough with his army.
I really remember the local Dark-Elf player boasting with his Dark-Elf mentioning that his Mighty MSU would beat anything. That was until he faced the dwarfs . It worked against anything BUT dwarfs.
-Strong customisable characters
-Tough, well armoured high Leadership troops.
-Force you to come closer because of the amount of firepower.
Dwarves can be a great beginner army, its easier to start with, is reliable, simulair to Bretonnians.
But, when Dwarves have to move they ussually get in trouble, unfortunatly I haven't faced the Anvil of Doom or even the Special Character... It's just seems strange when that wall of tough troops is running towards you...
My buddy plays DE and me and him have had some pretty close games at smaller point values, but when we play larger ones like 2,000, I think dwarfs get much harder since(at least I do this) we can spread our units out enough to cover the flanks, effectively negating one of the major weaknesses in that we get flanked alot. Also, let me tell you that the warmachines are NOT cheap! I once had it blow up on the first turn in a 1000pt battle even with a coule runes on it! AND Empire have cheaper machines and some really good ones: helstorm+helblaster= dead stuff, AND detachments!!! People just get angry when (*surprise surprise*) stength 3 bow arrows don't kill a whole ranked 20 warriors when fired at BS 2 or 3!!!
P.S, Sorry, I got really into it...
To be honest having a runed machine misfire in turn 1, thats just unlucky. But generally, most warmachines misfire 1/6, destroy themselves 1/36, and occasionally are unable to fire next turn from a misfire. Dwaves can completely ignore the latter results, and they are able to reroll a misfire result, making their machines the most reliable in the game.
Last edited by Phoenix; September 12th, 2007 at 15:46.
Well, as I don't know what list you run I can't comment on if your army is "broken" per se or not. However as stated above, if the Dwarf player chooses to powergame, he can make the game incredibly frustrating for his opponent. Such a list would be Thorek on a hill with a warmachine or two, some thunderers and then then base of the hill surrounded by a mix of more warriors and thunderers or quarellers. The Dwarven players opponent will be slowed down by the anvil and likely never reach the Dwarven lines. This is an extememe example, but I've seen it happen. If a Dwarf player runs this kind of list, he/she shouldn't be suprised when he/she has trouble getting a game.
But in general, there are no broken armies in Fantasy. It much more depends upon the skill of the general and how he uses his army rather than how good the army is. And a poorly built army doesn't mean that the army is crappy, it rather shows that the general playing said army doesn't understand his army enough to build a competent list.