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I need to try and force a draw/mild defeat. I am fighting in a campaign and i am fighting at 1500pts vs skaven at 1850pts
I know this isn't pretty but does anyone have any ideas on strategy for forcing draw so i do not loose so many empire points. For the campaign i absolutely cannot let him get a massacre.
me (stuck with this generic list)
thane of pain
thane bsb-with the 5+ wardsave against shooting standard
2 bolt throwers
1 tunneling team
6-8 blocks of troops
several giant rat packs
Idea i had was turtling up in a corner with thunderers set up in a long line infront of entire army almost as screens to block los and to have the organ behind the open side flank to keep it out of sight of his guns and protect my flank as best as possible.
Shoot his most expensive units in range + hope he self destructs
Anyone other ideas would be greatly appreciated
Eliminate his shooting. Those jezzails will hurt. Focus all your shooting on his jezzails. If he deploys them back, I'd even move my shooters in the movement phase to get to them the next turn.
How do skaven win fights? Shooting, magic, static resolution and flanks. The first two are out the window, as long as you can keep your static res equal with his, don't get horribly our flanked and kill slightly more models then him you will win.
I lined up and fought normally, and got massacred. There were just too many fleeing units and flankers and screens. 5s to hit jezzails at long range is no good. He ended up taking a banner of something that made the plague monks cause fear and with hatred/frenzy/hero/champ = 19attacks rerolling misses and like 30 of them in the squad. I was obviously outnumbered with less static res and auto-broke
Yes, Dwarfs arn't as competitive against swarm lists at smaller points. The only thing that could have really tipped the balance in your favor would have been a flame cannon or even a regular cannon. I'm still suprised that you got wipped out though...your T4 and +3 armor save should have really made a difference against S3 low armor rats.
One thing to remember when fighting skaven is that their leadership is in direct relation to their ranks...get them down to one or two ranks and they will almost auto break. A good tactic in a skaven fight is to use terrain to bottleneck them and then shoot their front charging ranks to make them panic and break...fleeing back through the rest of the army causing more panic checks. Skaven are kind of like dominoes in that respect, you just have to knock over the first one and generally the rest of the army will fall. Also remember when fighting Skaven that Plauge Monks are their only truly fearsome fighting unit...every other unit needs flanking and outnumbering to beat dwarfs but plauge monks can do it head on.
The only honorable options left to we combatants is seppuku or semantics...which amount to the same thing really.
The thunderers got tied up with the tunneling team. The jezzails/rattling guns were tearing the hammerers and long beards up. I had so few deployment drops he could set up that nasty plague monk squad far after i was finished deploying.
A 30 man(rat) block that has that many re-rolling attacks and fear + outnumber is going to break me every time. Assuming i loose a few dwarfs from shooting/magic my static CR should be around 3 and his should be around 6.
He will pretty much avoid(or tie them up with cheap troops) the hammerers.
Is there any counter to this? I can't shoot them much due to the fact that the are screened by slaves or cheap skirmishers
gyrocopter would be better than an organ gun against a horde army at least. It also get's a flame template, and as long as you fly carefully, he's hard to kill and hard to pin down.
Gyrocopters are actually useless against an sane skaven players (there are some ) as they just shoot it once with a ratling gun.
Only thing I can think of would be to use the thundderes to go after his shooting - deploy on a hill to gain LOS, and try and meet him on as narrow a battlefront as posssible to negate his numbers. If you can deploy between a table edge and some impassable terrain that'd probably be the best way.
aut viam inveniam aut faciam / I'll either find a way or make one.
Well your obviously in for an uphill struggle. In fact to be honest although I think the advice below is worth following, I doubt you'll win more games than you lose against him even if you play very well.
Jezzails are incredibly damaging against Dwarves, and minimising their impact should be one of your deployment priorities. If you can stop him getting a hill, if you can't stop him using it: Deploy on the side furthest from it / blocked by terrain / further back in your deployment zone.
If you can start with the Jezzails unable to shoot you, it lowers the damage he can do before combat and also forces him to try and position his units so the Jezzails can see something to shoot at through his battleline.
If he comes to you, use shooting to knock the edge off of as many block units as you can (take off 1-2CR) as your going to have to rely on surviving combat. Also remember if you have two units involved in a combat then his fear causing models need to outnumber ALL your models to auto-break you.
In combat your only chance is the traditional Dwarf wall with a denied flank (your units in a line with one flank protected by board edge etc). If you've protected your troops from his Jezzails, and used your shooting to take his units ranks down, the main crack in your defence is the exposed flank and rear. Ideally you'd deny both flanks, but failing perfect terrain angle your line to make it hard to reach and use your thunderers as sacrificial combat troops if you must to stop it being charged.