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the never ending post, use thunderers or quarellers
please say which of these to use vs. what army and why.
also i would like some nice hero rune combos vs high elves (unit or hero killers i dont mind)
thanks for your help
ah the age old conflict of all dwarf players. Only matched by hammerers vs. iron breakers.
Well the general consensus has come to believe that if you want versatility you go for quarrellers. If you just want a powerful ranged punch, go for thunderers.
That’s essentially it. A more detailed analysis tends to find that quarrellers are better value for points overall (being cheaper and all that jazz). but the difference is marginal as its only in combat that quarrellers pull ahead in general.
as far as against certain foes go both weapons have their "gem" targets.
quarrellers excel against lightly armoured T3-4 targets. With their long range they are able to start inflicting the pain turn 1 and keep raining those bolts down on the enemy. this catagory includes rank and file humans, orcs, elves (ranked ones) and ogres.
Thunderers are better against higher armour foes such as knights, chaos warriors and other heavy infantry. thunderers also tend to be more accurate so they are better to trust when taking on more dangerous targets you need rid of. they however loose out a turn of shooting to the crossbow because of range.
rune combo's against elves eh? Well for starters due to their ASF and high I you will NOT be able to hit them first in melee. As such i recommend avoiding master rune of swiftness combo's.
S5 is the winning number in this situation so i suggest you aim for a good armour save (1+ at the very least) and then aim for a rune of cleaving, rune of fury and a rune of striking on a thane and to swap the rune of striking for a rune of snorri on a lord.
This combo doesn't look like much but against T3 opponents with light armour its a GODSEND!
Weapon skill 7 provides you with additional protection from their own characters as well as meaning you can hit those annoying high weapon skill pansies on 3's with a thane and 2's with a dwarf lord (rune of snorri for the win).
the large number of attacks (4 and 5 respectively) means that with your S5 you should be able to cleave a good 3-4 elves a turn in melee :happy: making their whole always strikes first thing pretty meaningless when it comes to combat resolution.
we dwarves tend to lack character killing combo's sadly and when we do deploy them our low movement makes us avoidable. as such I recommend tooling for unit killing. beat them through combat res i say!
other runes to consider when fighting elves include the master rune of grungi which you can place on an elite dwarf unit standard (hammerers, ironbreakers and longbeards). i personally recommend longbeards as they should have a central position on your lines anyways ;Y
This 5+ ward gives you protection from those nasty RBT's and any magic missiles they fancy throwing out to boot
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[16:19] <@Alzer> Arky's right though
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[16:20] <@Kaiser-> He usually is.
[16:20] <@Kaiser-> Sometimes it's intentional.
[00:01] <+zubus> i love you, ya skirt wearin nothern monkey! ^_^
Personally i prefer thunderers. I use them to secure a flank against any fast moving units they send to roll me up. Most fast cav (or even heavy cav) will not fare well against 10 handguns hitting on 3+ and armour piercing. They tend to cause the opponent to deploy away from them.
As for elf killing combos, i still say that a lord with the rune of kragg the grim, a rune of cleaving, and a rune of snorri will kill everything in spades including characters and chariots. Also, the master rune of challenge really annoys elves when you force chariots to charge alone, mages to run away, or eagles and shadow warriors to attack fully ranked units instead of war machines...
Oi! Get off me beard!
As a WE player I know I hate seeing quarellers.
That 30" range means I can't sit 26" away and snipe at your units.
Mirage Arcana Podcast
The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.
I prefer Thunderer's because i love the +1 to hit (i so need it with how i roll) ST4 and AP. so your always hitting with -2 on Armor save.
as for combo's. i call this my chariot buster.
Thane, GW, X-bow, Kragg, Cleaving, Snorri with a rune of stone for fun
total cost is 149
this gives you a 3+ save, st7 and with WS6, and +1 to hit most of the time your hitting on 2's with 3 attacks. i add in the X-bow b/c i like having a stand and shoot option in an unit of long beards really confuses the enemy.
so many times have i been facing TK and they charge my longbeards with their chariots. and boom 3 dead with my thane. it's funny
Last edited by Hondor; May 27th, 2008 at 20:50. Reason: changed army -> unit to limit confusion
I believe that any army should have roughly the same number of Quarreller units as Thunderer units. If you get all Thunderers and face elves your in big trouble but if you get all Quarrellers and your against Bretonians your in bug trouble.
Master Rune of Grungni is very useful against high elves as is Strollaz's Rune if you plan on charging. Gyrocopters really hurt them if they don't have many archers to take them down as do flame cannons (I know Gyrocopters and Flame Cannons are not runes but they need to be mentioned nonetheless). Also, Arklite's advise for weapon runes is excellent.
*grumble* Bah! Thunderers! Bunch of lazy no good beardlings who'd rather show off their shiny new century old toy than get off their technological widened rear ends and use a bit of elbow work to reload. Pheh! Blackpowder weapons. Oh sure, they're just a bit better at taking down those feather decked knights, probably because the horses (finickey delicate creatures, never would last a day in the mountains) get blinded by the clouds of smoke generated by those firearms... you believe that they have the gall to call them firearms? Give me a grimey shirt and a light and I'll show you some fire arms... give'em a bit of rain and then what happens to their precious firearms? We'll tell the greenskins time out, our flavour of the century is a little damp? Take those stuck up elves, do you see them using blackpowder? No! And that's because they're too damned arrogant to... er, wait... what was I talking about again?
Thunderers are good only if we have plenty of them, and we create a gunline army.
After that on balanced armies Quarrellers all the way, at least for me.
They are fantastic unit.
You can outrange a lot of missile units in the game, and most importand. When the enemy stops 6" away to charge without failure next turn, declare charge and slice them with the Great Weapons. 8X That's all the fun. Especially funnier when then unit you charge are expensive.