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  1. #1
    Senior Member Parcival's Avatar
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    Young dwarf with lots of questions

    Greetings Dwarf Lords,

    I am a Wood Elves player since 1993 and - although the relationship between Elves and Dwarfs is a little "tense" - have the strong desire to let spear and bow rest for a while and pick up an axe instead.


    Reasons why I want to play Dwarfs:

    1. I play a Wood Elves army because I was mostly playing a Wood Elve in role playing games. Whenever I didn't play my Wood Elf character I enjoyed playing a Dwarf the most. In other words, I am mostly a fluff player.
    2. From my point of view, Dwarfs are the best looking army in WHFB. Painting is a really important part for me in this hobby as well.
    3. I "love" playing the good armies/characters and "hate" the bad ones. When I read the game report in the latest White Dwarf and saw how the Dwarfs lost against the new Chaos I literally felt a grudge boil up inside me. I found the introduction the most offensive where they describe how the Chaos General saw the fear in the Dwarfs' eyes. Pah, I still need to be shown a Dwarf who shows fear!


    My goal:

    In a first step I'd like to build a Dwarf army worth 1'000 points and in a second I'd like to expand to 2'000 points. My idea of a Dwarf army is about lots of tough infantry and lots of gunpowder. Although money isn't really an issue, I'd like to specifically shop for models I need and not spend too much on optional models.

    I have read through Arklite's The Art of Dawi and have come to the conclusion that his advice pretty well matches my idea of what I want my army to be:

    • 2 regiments of Dwarf Warriors, each 30 Dwarfs strong
    • 1 regiment of Long Beards, 30 Dwarfs strong
    • 2 regiments of Thunderers, each 10 Dwarfs strong
    My idea is to form a battle line with the Long Beards in the center having the Dwarf Warriors guarding their flanks with the Thunderers guarding the Warriors' flanks in return.


    My questions:

    1. What Thains/Lords do I need? I assume the battle standard is a default? What models should I buy to resemble those?
    2. What's a good ratio between Dwarfs with close combat weapons and those with long range weapons? I just assumed that 20 Thunderers would be enough, or are they too many or too few?
    3. How does the whole rune thing and WYSIWYG work? Do you actually have to model the runes onto the miniatures or is it enough when you just write them down in your army list?
    4. The Dwarf Army deal has the most models for the money paid, but for my purpose I think it's better if I buy two Dwarf Battalion deals. Or are the Dwarf Miners so great in the game that I'd be insane to leave them away? I don't like the candles on the models, could they easily be left away?
    5. What canons do I need? The two Dwarf Canons I'd get in the Dwarf deals sound like really versatile artillery to me, but are they the right type and amount for the list I want to play?
    6. I'd like to protect myself well against magic. Is it worth to go for the Anvil of Doom at 2'000 points or should I pick 2 Rune Smiths instead (as Arklite suggests as an option)?

    Well, that's it for now. Now I go and buy the army book as a next step. Thanks in advance for helping me out on my newbie questions.

    Last edited by Parcival; October 28th, 2008 at 21:14.
    "Fear not and look up to the sky for salvation, for we have entered orbit."
    Blood Angels 2nd Grail Guard Company

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  3. #2
    Member Coyote Laughs's Avatar
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    Answers to your questions...

    Welcome to the fold, Parcival.... you'll be seeing that there is a load of difference between playing the WE vs the dwarves in fantasy... loads... but on to your questions...

    1) There's a box set with a BSB and a dwarf on an oathstone... I'd really consider that... but the lord you want is the one on the shield-bearers... as you will see whenever you get the book, why would you not get the shield-bearers... for 25 pts, you get so many more abilities...

    2) Unless you're going for a gunline, 20 should be enough... park them on your flanks can call it good...

    3) No, you don't have to model it on your models... because the way you rune up your characters will change from game to game as you slowly evolve into your own dawi playstyle...

    4) Dwarf miners are ok... I've got a bunch and they haven't seen the field in awhile...

    5) Cannons are great, especially since you get them with the box set... I think the new cannons can either be converted into a cannon or an organ gun... will somebody else comment? I personally like the bolt throwers... less chance of a misfire... but they do look like they'll go into your list... you wanted lots of gunpowder... but really look into an organ gun... they tend to scare the bejeebies out of people...

    6) If you like the Anvil, then you'll want to pick up the Miners then.... if you're that scared of magic, one runepriest with 2 runes of spell-breaking will be enough.... don't forget that dawi are naturally immune to magic (5 dispel with a rune-priest)... just let the magic missiles hit... sure, you might lose 1 or 2 dwarves at the most, but save your dispel dice for the spells that'll mess you up big time... and don't forget that you do have a magic phase with 2 power dice, and that you should be trying to dispel your opponent's remains in play spell with them...

    Hope that answers your questions.... if you have any others, feel free to ask...

    Coyote

  4. #3
    quik-quik, kill-kill! The bearded one's Avatar
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    A dwarf general afraid? 0.o Those writers don't even know their own fluff!

    Personally I wouldn't take units of 30 strong, I usually take units of 20. But if you are worried that a rank will get shot off I'd suggest 25. But dwarfs are very tough and enemy missle fire has to be hard hitting to make a notable dent on units because most normal missle troops need 5's to wound your standard soldier,not to worry. And the have plenty of armoursave, unlike WE .

    But I take units of 20 myself ( I used to take units of 15, so I could field as much as possible in small games. ) and units of 15 longbeards with shields. Both cost 180, so relatively small units cna be fielded about 3 or 4 times in 1000 pts with plenty of room for heroes and a warmachine.

    An anvil is expensive and can only be used in 2000+. I suggest 1 or 2 runemiths and give 1 the Master rune of balance, which takes one of your enemies power dice and gives it to you as a dispel dice. It will leave you an a safe 6 dispell dice and the enemy -1. Put some fighting runes on him and he can deliver a punch in close combat too.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Parcival's Avatar
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    Thank you for the replies so far, I really appreciate them. I knew that Dwarfs are going to be a lot different than Wood Elves.

    When I visited my gaming store this afternoon I saw they still have one box with the Warhammer 25th anniversary Dwarf deal (with one Master Engineer, 16 Thunderers, 20 Iron Breakers, one Canon, and one Gyrocopter). This sounds like a really good deal in combination with the Dwarf Battalion deal, after that I'd need just a couple more Dwarf Warriors plus those awesome older Long Beard models. What do you think about the 25th anniversary deal? I'm not sure how to rate the strength of the Iron Breakers and the Gyrocopter in relation to other special and rare units.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote Laughs View Post
    1) There's a box set with a BSB and a dwarf on an oathstone... I'd really consider that... but the lord you want is the one on the shield-bearers... as you will see whenever you get the book, why would you not get the shield-bearers... for 25 pts, you get so many more abilities...
    Yes, I read in Arklite's guide that the shield-bearers are really good, so I'll go for this miniature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote Laughs View Post
    2) Unless you're going for a gunline, 20 should be enough... park them on your flanks can call it good...
    Sounds perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote Laughs View Post
    3) No, you don't have to model it on your models... because the way you rune up your characters will change from game to game as you slowly evolve into your own dawi playstyle...
    Good, that makes life a whole lot easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote Laughs View Post
    4) Dwarf miners are ok... I've got a bunch and they haven't seen the field in awhile...
    Okay, in this case I am going to pass on those. I don't like the models, they don't seem to be a top pick, and I can purchase the 25th anniversary deal with Iron Breakers, so this is probably the better option for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote Laughs View Post
    5) Cannons are great, especially since you get them with the box set... I think the new cannons can either be converted into a cannon or an organ gun...
    Yes, they can, but the organ gun is a rare unit so I think about getting a few "normal" canons first to have massive fire power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote Laughs View Post
    6) If you like the Anvil, then you'll want to pick up the Miners then...
    Thanks for the tips on magic. Why are the miners so good in relation with the Anvil? Because the Anvil can slow down the enemy so the Miners have a real advantage when coming over any edge of the table?

    Quote Originally Posted by The bearded one
    Personally I wouldn't take units of 30 strong, I usually take units of 20. But if you are worried that a rank will get shot off I'd suggest 25.
    Well, in terms of purchasing models at the store it doesn't make a real difference between 25 and 30 models per unit, so I'll go for the larger amount.

    Quote Originally Posted by The bearded one
    An anvil is expensive and can only be used in 2000+.
    Okay, in this case I'll go for the Rune Smiths.

    Thanks again.
    "Fear not and look up to the sky for salvation, for we have entered orbit."
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  6. #5
    Bearded Ninja Arklite's Avatar
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    Aha! Good to see fresh blood on the table

    Generally speaking you have exactly the right idea and coyote and Bearded have given every bit of advice I could have mentioned myself.

    i would like to emphasise bearded ones point on the warrior numbers though. 30 strong is a bit on the high end for dwarf warriors who tend to be at peak efficacy at around 20-25 strong depending on your army. you can almost get another unit of warriors out of that if you go down to 20 and easily get a character out of it if you go down to 25 strong.


    good luck in your games


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  7. #6
    Senior Member Parcival's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arklite View Post
    30 strong is a bit on the high end for dwarf warriors who tend to be at peak efficacy at around 20-25 strong depending on your army. you can almost get another unit of warriors out of that if you go down to 20 and easily get a character out of it if you go down to 25 strong.
    Okay, this is sound advice, I just wanted to make sure I can keep the rank bonus as you put a big emphasis on it in your Dwarf tactics. However, the question on what size my regiments are exactly going to be doesn't affect my spending at the store that much so I still aim for the higher number whether I deploy them in one or more regiments later.

    Most urgently, however, please give me advice on whether it's worth buying the Warhammer 25th Anniversary Dwarf Deal or not. It's obviously a limited offer and there's one box at my store left.
    "Fear not and look up to the sky for salvation, for we have entered orbit."
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  8. #7
    Member Coyote Laughs's Avatar
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    Parcival...

    ok, I would vote for a yes on that army deal. I love my Ironbreakers. I normally run IB with a BSB who also happens to have an oathstone in most of my lists. And I get 25 of them, because like you, I happen to like to keep my rank bonuses. I know some people like 30, but 20-25 is good for me. 25 for my IBs, and 20s for the rest of my units.

    And on to your question about the interaction of the Anvil and the Miners. One of the Anvil's powers is that it will let you move 1 or more units in the shooting phase. So one of the standard Anvil tactics is to bring the Miners on, and then let them get a rear charge into one of the enemy units. But it's an expensive combo, and I've had one too many Anvils blow up on me.

    Hope that answers your question on the Anvil.

    Coyote

  9. #8
    Senior Member Parcival's Avatar
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    @ Coyote Laughs,

    Thanks for answering my questions. I purchased the 25th anniversary army deal, so now I have more or less my special and rare units, now I just need to stock up on hard basic Dwarf units.
    "Fear not and look up to the sky for salvation, for we have entered orbit."
    Blood Angels 2nd Grail Guard Company

  10. #9
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    I need help too...

    I am basically in the same boat as you are. I started in late September, so I haven't had much time to build up an army yet, and I am totally new to warhammer, as before I was into D&D.

    From my extensive reading, however, I have come to the conclusion that i need 2 blocks of 25+ warriors, 1 of 25+ longbeards, 1 of 20+ hammers, 1 of 20+ Iron breakers.

    For shooting, I need 20+ thunders, and 20+ quarellers, 2+ cannons, 2+ bolt throwers, a grudge thrower, a flame cannon, and 2+ organ guns. Last, at least one Gyrocopter.

    For hero's, I need the lord on shield bearers, 2-3 Thane models (i have 3 Skull pass sets of dwarves, so the thanes are covered.) 1-2 master engineers, 1-2 Runesmiths/runelords and a BSB. (I figure i will just pick up the thane on a rune stone/BSB model set, to kill 2 birds with one stone)

    Now, I have left out Miners, ( have 24 from the Skull pass set, along with 35 warriors, 30 thunders and 3 cannons) Slayers, ( I will get them eventually, I just figure they are lower prority, as they are only really usefull in certain circumstances) and the anvil. (mostly because i don't want it to become a crutch before I really get to understand my army, once I am doing 2500+ points I might get one for the option, but I don't want it to be something I feel I HAVE to have.)

    That's about it, I am probally going to convert some warriors for both my IB and Hammers, with a real comand group for each, this should make it easier to pick them up sooner. I have the 1 organ gun and I have about 15 total IB's that i converted from a box of warriors. I have ordered the quarrelerers, a Runesmith and the comand groups for the hammers and IB's.



    Now, I post all of this because I am starting a campaign in November, and I need to know what to get next. I can field the required 1500 points at the moment, but its not ballanced and requires that I pretty much go heavy artillery with warriors and thunders.

    Sorry for the long post, and sorry for doing it in a thread someone else started, but any advice would be appricated.

    Brogan Ironbrow

  11. #10
    Member Coyote Laughs's Avatar
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    Brogan

    Brogan,

    I'd either get the dwarf battalion box set or the battle for skull pass box. Either way, you need to get more dwarf warriors/longbeards/ibs. The Dawi do best when backed up by plenty of groundpounders.

    You want as many boots on the grounds as possible. The marching Dawi's strength is in our static combat res, and armour save.

    Coyote

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