Magic Weapons and the Parry Bonus - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Magic Weapons and the Parry Bonus

    Now, as is fairly well known, when you use a magic weapon, you lose your additional +1 to AS from Hand Weapon and Shield.

    From discussions I've had, it seems evident that the only way this would NOT happen would be if a Magical Weapon has in its description "counts as a hand weapon".

    So I went on a quest to find a magical weapon that counts as a hand weapon. Didn't have to go very far at all-- was digging through Dwarf Runes, when I noticed that MRoFlight specifically states that the weapon counts as a hand weapon in close combat, but still strikes with magical attacks. This description leads me to believe that, rules as written, this is a magical weapon with which you can receive the hand weapon and shield bonus.

    Other than just spreading this fairly useless bit of knowledge, I would like to ask a question:

    What happens if you use other runes on the weapon? From my reading of the text, you would not only get the benefits of say, two runes of cleaving or fury, you would still have your +1AS.

    Here's the text:

    ...In addition, a weapon with this rune may be used in close combat as a hand weapon, although this rune has no effect in close combat beyond making the hand weapon magical
    The way this is worded "A WEAPON with this rune MAY be used in close combat as a hand weapon although THIS rune has no effect in close combat beyond..." leads me to believe that it specifically states other runes take effect, even while the weapon is being used as a hand weapon-- because it is also specifically states that only the MRoFlight has no effect in close combat.

    Comments? Other insights?


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    Hmm I am not sure how that would work exactly. I mean I could see that due to the description on the Master Rune of Flight that you would get parry there in the same way that magical spears that say they are spears still have the bonuses that go along with spears and great weapons with the Master Rune of Kragg the grim are still great weapons however unlike the Master Rune of Kragg the Grim it does not specifically say that it stays a hand weapon if other runes are added so I would guess that it would count of the MRoF was the only rune on it otherwise I would think it would not.

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    Keeper of Records and Ale King Ulrik Flamebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GW FAQ
    Q. Does a character benefit from the "Fighting with hand
    weapon and shield (infantry)" rule found on page 56, if
    armed with a mundane hand weapon and a magical
    shield?

    A. Yes. However it will not if armed with a magical
    weapon and a mundane or magical shield, because the
    magical weapon loses the normal rules of hand weapons.
    Even though the rules say that it counts as a hand weapon, it is still a magical hand weapon. This is official, and there is no way around it. It you arm a character with a magical weapon, even one that says it counts as a hand weapon, it is still magical and therefore you are unable to claim the parry bonus due to this.

    You would be able to use the runes in combat, like normal. They would still count as being present and used in combat - they'd even (eg. RoCleaving) be allowed to be used for the thrown attack from the Master Rune.

    Kuffy

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    I disagree entirely-- the rune specifically states that the weapon becomes a hand weapon with magical attacks-- the fact is that when you use a generic "Magical Weapon" then it loses all its special hand weapon rules. Same thing with Great Weapons, Lances, Flails, etc.

    A Hand Weapon whose attacks count as magical is not a generic "Magical Weapon" in the sense that it loses its special rules-- in the exact same vein as magical Spears.

    That FAQ could just as easily be referring to Spears, in that when using a magical weapon, you lose your bonus +1S on the charge if mounted, and your fighting in ranks when on foot. However, if you have a magical spear that has "counts as a spear" then it does get those bonuses.

    What's more, the text doesn't even say "counts as a hand weapon" it says, "may be used AS a hand weapon". Meaning it IS a hand weapon. That much cannot possibly be argued. The solid fact is that, Rules as Written, you absolutely 100% DO get your HWS bonus when using an axe with JUST the MRoF, there's really no arguing with that.

    The question really becomes, does it maintain this ability when other runes are attached? I would argue yes, though that was most likely not the intent of the rune.

    QUICK EDIT:

    Look at your own quote from the Warhammer FAQ-- the key word is BECAUSE. It does not say that all magical weapons lose this bonus, it says that you lose the bonus because the magical weapon loses the normal rules of hand weapons. When the rune specifically states that the weapon can be used in close combat AS a hand weapon, it gains the normal rules of hand weapons, thereby being a very specific, defined exception to the aforementioned FAQ.
    Last edited by Beardbro; January 13th, 2009 at 04:58.

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    It dosent matter. Runes are magical and a weapon inscribed with a rune therefor, becomes magical.
    The reason why it states that its used like a hand weapon is because, in the above text it is stated that its used as a thrown weapon. In other words, when your not in Close Combat, it acts as a thrown weapon, and in CC it acts as a hand weapon rather than a thrown weapon.

    Hope it was somewhat understandable.

    Further more, it does indeed keep its abillity, when combined with other runes.

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    Even though it would be sweet to keep the parry bonus, I'm going to have to agree with King Ulrik and Alriks Bodyguard on this one.

    You still lose the parry bonus. The only reason that it says you can use it as a hand weapon is so you don't think that this weapon can only be thrown.

    The "As = Is" argument doesn't quite work in this situation I think. I don't mean to be rude or condescending because I can see where you are coming from. Even though you can use a rock as a hammer doesn't mean that it is a hammer. In the same way, you can use this magical weapon as a mundane hand weapon (meaning you can attack in close combat) but it isn't a mundane hand weapon.

    I would agree with you if the rule entry had said that it "counts as a hand weapon" To me that would say it keeps the rules of a hand weapon.

    I realize that you can never read the tone of what somebody has written so I hope none of that came off rude. Just trying to clarify.
    ...YADREW

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    This is a weird arguement for me, I always thought WHFB players were more chill on average than 40K players are. You guys have let me down.

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    Man, I don't know if that was meant to be funny or not but the tone I read it with made it comedy gold. I shall rep you for that one.
    ...YADREW

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    This is a weird arguement for me, I always thought WHFB players were more chill on average than 40K players are. You guys have let me down.
    we are more chill. we just don't twist rules to our own advantage


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    Senior Member DarkKnight's Avatar
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    are we calling hand weapons that have runes on it means you can not use a shield or are we just taking about generic magical weapons?
    "Ah, but the truth is like an expensive whore, Jerek. She comes in many dresses and will bend over for any with the money to pamper her." ~ Konrad von Carstein

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