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I am new to warhammer and the dwarfs and would like to clarify a point that I keep seeing in many posts realted to dwarfs.
LO has been a great resource for me and I have spent hours reading over hundreds of posts to help me choose a starting army. In almost every post that involves a dwarf topic I always see a recurring theme:
The dwarf gunline is "cheesy" and/or frowned upon by people.
Is this statement true or is it just because some players just do not know how to counter a gunline.
I really want to create a dwarf army with the focus of the army being on war machines.
However I really do not want to win against an oppenent and then hear "your army is so cheesy" every time.
The dwarves have war machines and an anvil...so why can they not use them without getting "frowned upon"
I think it seems logical that if we have guns, then we would want to kill as many units as we can with them before the enemy reaches us so that their strategy will be destroyed.
Any input would be appreciated.
The Dwarf gunline being cheesy is a claim that has persisted since the army book came out at the tail end of 6th edition.
Personally I hesitate to use the term 'Cheesy' over anything, there are ways to counter any army, and the Dwarf gunline, suffering as it does from a lack of mobility and numbers, is eminently beatable unless you march your army straight towards the guns.
If you also consider that since the army book came out several other armies have been buffed up considerably- Daemons, Dark and High Elves, VC etc etc. and could be considered considerably more cheesy than anything a Dwarf general can throw out.
if you want to run a gunline do it, and damn the naysayers.
PLAN CLAN MAN!!
He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man- S. Johnson
I too dislike using the term "cheesy" to descibe an army list. If it's in the book then it's in the book, noone plays to lose and everyone (no matter how friendly or competitive you are) roots for their own forces to win the game. That being said people ofcourse aren't obliged to play against you and may very well decline if you choose to play a gunline (especially armies that thrive in CC)
But in the end it's your money and time going into the army so play however you want.
Thank you -- Akaroth, Kadros, and Theobold -- for the response.
I feel the same way about:
1. I don't like the term "cheese" and
2. If its in the book then you should be able to play it
I just got the army book today and will be posting some sample gun line lists soon to get your advice on.
If I am going to create a strong gun line then which war machines do you recommend? I will probably playing again O&G to begin with so I think that I might add a flame cannon to the mix.
ok im of a different view on cheesy, i do not believe gw test there products enough or aswell as could be done as i have seen one turn wins being produced from whats in the book, i can call deamons of chaos cheesy in this edition. for a gunline i have played with and against them i do not think they are cheesy. i think the common complaint that i hear about dwarven gunline is that they are boring to play against.
i disagree and personally enjoy playing against a gunline both with my cc army (vc) and my gunline (empire or dwarves if i get them down out of the loft). i reccommend for a gunline 2 cannon and 2 bolt thrower, four war machines plus the rare choice of organgun/flame cannon instill enough punching power too fell anything your opponent can field remember too tool them up with engineers' and rune of forging. always take shield on your handgunners, the t4 and 4+ armoursave in cc is worth its weight in gold. in 2k id go a rune lord with his anvil and three runesmiths, the smiths are hard enough in close combat as it is and you have a silly number of dispel dice, that dominence in 2 out of four phases.
To me, it's not a matter of being "beardy" or "cheesy" or what not. It's a matter of fun.
I find gunlines exceedingly dull to play with and against. I tried Dwarfs for a short time and tried the gunline, and to me, it just wasn't fun. Likewise, when I've played against Empire or Dwarf gunlines, it's rather dull if not patently frustrating, especially when the player parks his shooters 4" inches from the table edge, shoots for 6 turns, and you never reach him. I think it's important to provide a fun and sporting match for your opponents. Even with my WEs, I'll go into some combats that I'd avoid in in tourney situation just so the other player can feel like he's had a good fight as watching my units dance around him the whole game is exceedingly dull.
I see what you mean about the gunline being boring and I agree that if I was playing someone who just shot for 6 turns then I probably would not want to play them again.
These forums are amazing because there is so much information on every single aspect of the game...but I think the downside of that is that since I am new I am letting all the information affect my judgement and am not trying to just relax and play with an army that I find is fun and looks appealing.
Thanks for the feedback. Right now I love the dwarves and cant wait to put a 1000 pt list together with a fair, competitive, and most of all fun aspect in mind.
Ill be posting a list this weekend to get your thoughts. (but i wont let if effect me too much...)
on a side note...are there instructions somewhere that tell a new member how to navigate and use all the options of this site...ex. rep, profiles, ect...
Check out the site and support. At the top is an FAQ. Also, one of the most helpful places is your User CP (upper left).
And yes, doing what's fun for you is important. You shouldn't play the lists other people want you to play (which in your case would involve about 120 warriors, an engineer general, no shooting, and that's it. )