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Hi, I've got my first army for Warhammer, dwarfs. I've been pretty active with it since I started back in May.
Now I'm not saying I can't win without Thorek, in fact I've done quite well with a lord on shieldbearers. I just have nore fun with him. It feels like it adds a whole nother dimension to their play style. I go from not being able to ever charge, to craftily gaining a few important charges, maybe even with great weapons, when I really need them. He makes miners much better. The movement bonus just adds so much tactical flexible to the army. And the opponent either doesn't see it coming, or does and plays more carefully, not just throwing all his units close to you and laughing in your face.
Fear and Terror. Ahh my biggest pet peeve in the entire game. I just hate my brave little men, no matter how good of leadership they have, or how stubborn they are, taking tests on double ones and being run down. And so many of the new armies have fear causing units. I like the defence against it. It's not my most used power, but having it there can save a whole elite units' butt.
And the 2d6 S4 missiles + slow. Why should we not get any magic? It's a truly amazing power, not only the magic damage it can cause, but the slowness it makes the enemy and stopping flying cretures. I've been hit in the side by units of flyers and they can spend all game running circles around me, no we get some defence against those that do us the worst.
Thorek isn't just about hiding in the back and spamming magic missiles, he's about turing the game from shoot, shoot, be charged, to thinking and moving and shooting and charging, and alot on my terms.
SO what do you say? Start painting Karak Azul sybols on everybody? Or do I need to break this addiction. I don't want my opponents to cry cheese, I just don't smell it.
Armies: Ultramarines 2nd Co.
(coming soon) Wood Elves for my final army.
The problem with Thorek is that he address alot of dwarven weaknesses your opponents typically know how to exploit. Furthermore, he also happens to be silly cheap for what he does. Using Runic Magic leaves your opponent powerless to defense against it (all those dispels scrolls go down the drain, and so do those wizards they came with)
Coupled with the fact that thorek is nearly indestructive to any warmachine hunting unit.
The problem isn't 1 aspect really, it's the whole.
Thorek is quite a big chunck of your army though, and I'm sure if I ever were to use hi, he'd roll a 1, then reroll still a 1 and roll 1 on the anvil miscast table...
Opponents shouldn't cry cheese if you use his powers a lot for moving and psycho immunity instead of only spamming the magic missile. Enemy units have so much more flexibility than our units and a lot more room to set up charges, especially cavalry and skirmishers, but apparently they don't like it when dwarfs have flexibility too ( at a cost of 500 pts ) , that's being a hypocrite. I hardly ever use hammerers or warriors with great weapons because the front row will be wiped out in every combat for example.
You are using his powers for good, making the playfield even and adding an extra dimension to playing dwarfs, if opponents don't like the static playstyle of the dwarfs with shooting and waiting for the remaining bits to charge them, then there should be no crying when dwarfs move forward and charge.
If you do the normal gunline strat and spam 2D6 and wait for the remains, then you should break your addiction, but you are using him in another way ( and using thorek so you are sure he won't blow up setting up charges ) so it's actually ok.
* end rant *
Never played against dwarfs or with them, but i always say that anyone should just choose what they want from any armybook or codex without others deciding whether or not it's cheese.
The whole "cheese" debate is rubbish anyways: it's a sliding slope: their opinion what does or does not constitute cheese might not be mine and then what? If it's decided that my helblaster is "cheese", then what do i get to say in the matter?
GW made the rules so let's just stick with 'em.
Got a "good" rumour from a GW staffer? Forget about it, LO'ers know more than any random GW shop staffer.
Voor alle nederlanders:
The Dutch Legion
Maybe those tournaments who ban Thorek, also ban numerous other special characters by their names too? Quite a few coming into my mind from VC, Deamons, Warriors which are times more powerfull than Thorek.
And we are talking here about 2 (ok 3 but seriously Bugman is useless) special characters is what Dwarves have. (TK have only 1 to play below 3K!). While even Lizardmen, which started the last few weeks, along with all the recently published armies (2 years), have a broader selection of them as Heroes and Lords.
So I will accept the word cheese from a Bretonnia, Orcs, Tomb King and Ogres opponent, but not from someone who plays powergaming with VC or DoC.
after recently playing my first DoC opponent i am now fully convinced that thorek isn't really cheesy at all. My opponent had the masque, M10, 5 attacks, 3+ ward save and reduces your leadership or move by D3 for 90pts, skulltaker, 5+ killing blow against any size target in a challenge (thank god for the MR of spite!), 9 WS, 9 I, 3+ save, 5+ ward and 4 attacks, with hatred, for 150pts, and ku'gath plaguefather, a stone thrower that always wounds on a 2+ with no armour save and 10 wounds. All for 2000 pts as the masque and skulltaker are heroes. All this in an army thats immune to psychology, never breaks from combat and has a basic rock hard infantry model (bloodletters) for 12 points. The army list is even more broken at say 1000pt levels.
So i say if people are going to be banning the anvil then surely theres plenty of other cheesy unstoppable characters (tyrion for example) that should be banned also. Maybe tournaments should just say no named characters full stop, some are just way too overpowered.
BTW anyone have any idea how you kill tyrion? He moves 10, has 4 str 7 attacks (and 2 str 4), has a 1+ save, 4+ ward save and regeneration (with immunity to fire) and leadership 10. All for 400pts
Last edited by furstenburg; October 15th, 2009 at 11:32.
by the way has anyone played against KHolek Suneater yet? I here he can destory a steam tank in one turn.
As a thumb rule, we don't play games with special characters without an agreement between players in our local group and in local tournaments no special characters allowed.
Unfortunately, we do not have wide choice of units as "new army booked" armies have.
Anvil gives us flexibility to counter this and thorek anvil does it better or best.
As mentioned in the topic "what dwarfs need" we need more different type of troops or other clever dwarf tricks.
If it occurs, Most of the whining like "anvil sucks", "thorek is bugged" won't be encountered as much.
With the way the army books are going its looking more and more like special characters are becoming a core part of the game. I like it when people play special characters because it adds alot of flavor to an otherwise boring army.
As far as kholec goes....He's a beast, but not as beastly as 4 ancient stegadons.
My opponent brought troll king throgg, 2 units of trolls 1 unit of 25 marauders with a bsb with the banner that makes all units within 6" stubbron. He also brought 2 units of 3 dragon ogres and 2 dragon ogre shagoths.
I brought 4 ancient stegadons 1 unit of 20 saurus and 3 units of 16 skinks with a kroxigor.
He got slaughtered.