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I've noticed with 8th edition that its worth taking great weapons where you can these days and so i am starting to field my warriors with them and am choosing Hammerers over iron breakers more often that not.
The issue i am having is which uints that have great weapons i should bother buying shields for when given the chance. At the moment i'm planning running Units of;
2x 30 GW Warriors without shields,
25 Longbeards with handweapon and shield,
25 Hammerers with GW and shields.
Now, do i buy shields for the warriors, GW for the Longbeards, or start dropping shields on all units...
Whats your ideas for combinations,
Thanks again for any ideas.
The thing is shields are 1 pt per warrior, so equipping 25 warriors with shields is 3 (2 with gw) less warriors to take. or a magic banner you can't take or 2 engineers you can't take or less equipment for your thanes.
Because you can not use them in combat, if you take a different weapon than hand weapon you can not choose to use hand weapon and shield combination. So they are only used vs. ranged attacks. if that ranged attack is have better and equal Strength value than s4 then it gradually becomes useless.
So if you are against someone who fields a lot of s3 shots. you may op to buy shields for your warriors, LB etc. But generally try to take more models.
I think in 7th shields were very important to have, for the combat bonuses. With the new rules many players are dropping in favour of great weapons. Thus, in this climate I think on units with great weapons you can forgo the shields, unless you have the spare points.
I think, shields on missile units are perhaps worth it. Making them perhaps the most durable missile units in the game; a 4+ save in combat can help see off many of the war machine hunters in the came.
a 5+ save and parry save actually, but yeah, pretty durable. They're better in a fight than an empire swordsman because they're toughness 4.
Also I've seen many people favour blocks of 20 quarrelers with great weapons, because those are worth fearing as a combat unit and can assist when the close combat troops clash with the enemy.
The general rule on bugmansbrewery.com is -> many warriors + many great weapons = happy dwarf player
Longbeards benefit from using shields. They are also very good with great weapons but then they cost 13 pts while a hammerer has the same stats and great weapon AND is stubborn, and costs 12 points. That's more, for a point less.
I recently started to favour the awesomeness that is a horde of great weapon warriors. 10 wide, between 3 and 4 ranks deep and watch everything die before it.
My dwarf army has gravitated towards units of warriors with GW full command and no shields while my thunderers and quarrellers tend to be from 10 - 20 with shields but no command.
My warriors can't use shields in CC so it's a waste of points IMO however my ranged troops tend to benefit from the extra defence.
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I am new but my 2 cents are, warriors with shields lack hitting power but have the parry save, which is never modified and nice to go with their armor save. And although the Great Weapon warriors lose 1 on armor and the parry save, they get +2 str. So it's up to you what benefits you want.
And what everyone else says sounds awesome. Glad to see that there's a lot of knowledgeable people on the dwarf forums, because with my skills, I'm gonna need all the help I can get.
Last edited by Mumm-Ra; January 27th, 2011 at 06:32.
Mumm, you seem like you haven't played too much 8th edition. In this edition, high S attacks are everywhere, even in your cheapest soldier (5 pts for a S5 WoC marauder). This basically negates your shield save to a 6+/6++, which it terrible. You will be beat every time by high S units, not just marauders. Dwarves last edition where about sitting there and soaking up the damage, trying to win through SCR. No more. With crazy amount of attacks being thrown around (30 in an average horde, un-thinkable in 7th), you need to kill, or be killed. With GW's, you are really loosing very little, but gaining immense killing power.
Well, its like a bit of both. Sure, Great Weapons are awesome, but also costy. Some units it fit really well with, and on some it dont. To take an example:
Its extremly important, which enemy you're up against. Against Tomb Kings, you'd probably want 4+ armour save, rather than 2+ strength. Though against Chaos, its a bit more mixed.
For instance. Warriors is really best suited with Great Weapons. Strength 3 dosent do a lot, and as you say, the shield dosent do a whole lot against those high strength attacks. Longbeards are, imo, best suited with just a shield. Why? Its more or less cheaper, to go with the Hammerers. Why not give all units Great Weapons? Well, its quite costy, equipping every unit with that, paying 2 points extra for every dwarf. In addition to that, almost every army have some kinda low strength units. This is where these guys come into play. Taking care of the small harrasment units or helping with the tougher units, boosting them with runes.
Last edited by King Alriks Bodyguard; February 4th, 2011 at 08:05.
I've played a bit, and shields do help, even if it's a little, you definitely need killing units, that is true. But even with high str, 1/6 of your guys will save with the ward save. And it makes a good anvil. and 6/6 save is 2 chances to save. I know what you mean about great weapons, I like them more in general from what I've played. I would rather make a horde unit with GW than Shields anyday, but if I want a unit to hold out, even if it's just a little bit more so I can hit them with hammerers or other GW wielders, I pick dwarves. With 5 wide dwarfs with shields, that's 22 attacks at you on average. That's including their champion, And I think we can last a turn against that with shields. And yes... sadly I've only played a total of 1 tournament and 2 friendly games. And before that, I've never even picked up a dwarf codex. But a friend gave me a giant box of dwarfs, a codex, and told me to make an army for his tournament.
on bugmansbrewery.com as a general rule they are saying to ( in 2500 pts or below ) take 1 anvil unit ( with shields ) max and the rest with great weapons. I find this to be a rule worth following. Theres still some debate about wether to take warriors with shields ( a large unit geared for trying to stay steadfast ) or to take longbeards or ironbreakers with shields ( a smaller unit, but able to inflict considerable casualties by themselves and win combats. )