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Ok so it's inspired by a topic over on Bugmans; but the question stands. Are miners worth it?
Now, I've never taken Miners * but I see their uses; and drawbacks. I'll give my thoughts on their uses first.
Most popular uses I know of are
* War Machine Hunting
* Flank Molesting
WM hunting would suit them better I'd assume, they can appear on any table edge so that to start would worry your opponent. A full ranked GW toting dwarf unit appearing behind your precious WMs isn't something most people would like to see, so ok they can't charge that turn but they can still move; and marching 6" will most likely get them in a prime position to charge next turn. Now this doesn't sound good does it, a unit of 10+ dwarfs waiting in front of artillery. Admittedly it seems like a waste, but you have to see this from the opponents perspective. They now have a choice, do they turn to face the new threat and thus leaving one less WM to slam your army or do they ignore them and get charged? Then how many WMs do they use to fire upon them, a BT would kill 2-3 (depending on unit size) a ST risks bad scatter, a cannon stands the better chance with a grape shot. But then that's wounding on fours compared to two with a normal shot. This is what your opponent is considering.
If he chooses to fire upon you chances are at least some of the unit will be left (grape shot causing max 10 hits with good rolling), this will worry them now. They need to panic them, if not then the war machine is basically gone. Not only does this mean your miners are doing earning you VPs but it also aleviates the pressure of artillery upon your army. Now your miners have free rein over the WMs placement, maybe even rolling over each WM in turn.
The unit size for miners would be best to be small, paying extra for more ranks when you'll be facing 3 crew is a bit overkill. IMO for WM hunting the best unit size would be 10-12, but 16 at the verny most. A musician or champion maybe useful, but not a necessity.
min 10 miners + Musician = 126
Max 16 + musican = 198 (+ champion - 210)
Of course with every good there's a bad, and this is the bad.
What makes you think your opponent will be callus enough to place all their WMs together? If they see the miner unit there, they'll do everything possible to make sure that unit won't be overrunning everything they have any time soon. Also deploying the WMs more than 6" on to the board or having a hero roaming about are all careful and useful deterents. Also being so close to the table edge will mean if the Miners flee chances are they're gone and a nice VP bonus for your opponent. Knowing they're there is one part of avoiding/stopping them.
* Flank Molesting
No, not like Ol' Jacko but the effect can be close. Seeing a fully ranked unit appear on their flank can worry an army, especially if they have gone for a refused flank approach. Not only do they have to worry about recieving a flank charge but march blocking as well, this can severly disrupt plans. Dwarfs being one of the hardest troop types available with the nice high WS, T and LD means not everyone are willing to engage them head on, flanking works best but requires time. This means at least one unit won't be hassling your army for a turn or two, leaving your artillery to consentrate on other units.
So march blocking works, yes but the unit will need to be larger than for WM hunting. Why? Because you have to survive, getting the flanks all well and good but a unit of ten won't really put much of a dint into many units, they still outnumber and have a banner (+2CR) you'll get +1 for rank and then +X for kills. Not the best of ratios, a full unit of 16-20 would do best with champ. Expensive but being able to tie a unit up for a couple of turns or march blocking IMO would be worth the price.
Something else to consider, when appearing on the flanks a charge isn't always the best choice. Take vs Khorne for example (or any frenzied unit), you get in their charge arc and they have to charge. You flee and you've just successfully dragged a unit out of the battle line and maybe even exposed a flank for a counter attack. Or you can drag units away, flank them and if you loose they pursue away from your mainline units. Useful for taking blocks of infantry or elite units out and removing them piecemeal (a prime target for WMs would you not say?)
They can even appear closer to your edge, primed in a ready flanking position vs a unit already engaged with your infantry. Panic and GW attacks in the flank are enough to make most enemy commanders worry.
Unit size -
Min 16 miners + Champ & Musican = 210
Max 20 miners + champ & musican = 258
Again flank molesting has its downs;
You have movement 3" and 6" marching, most units will be moving at 8+" on the march. Chances are you'll spend most the game trying to catch up, also as most fast cav will be on the flanks it means you'll have an even tougher time. Another problem is WMs, you stand to show your flank; to a BT this could be a disaster. Being a relativly expensive unit and being isolated means a single cav unit could dismantle them over a few turns (missile armed cav/heavy cav) or scouts could in turn flank them. Of course there's the chance your opponent will ignore them and push onwards, being too slow to relocate quickly could mean the end the the stubborn little blighters.
Of course these are just a few tactics or ways of using them; There are other ways too:
* Table quarter grabbing - being able to appear behind the enemy could mean getting one of those vital quarters.
* Gap plugging - Coming on in your own board edge could give you that little boost, plugging a failing unit or bolstering a flank.
As said these are my thoughts from looking at the unit and its applications and mused upon from other player's comments upon the unit. So what do you think?
Are miners worth it or are they just over priced warriors?
* Contrary to popular belief I am a New player, gaming wise. I know the rules and how to play, it's just putting them into practice. The reason behind this is due to the lack of players in my area.
I will say yes if you use the in small units 12 in a unit give the cham and a standert and you go for WM or those lovely 10 in a unit missle troops with no standert. It is like KU said dont go big and hit the units you can break in 1 turn of combat then you got a unit of 12 miners with GW behind your enemy line( VERY VERY NICE )
I don't think giving them a standard is a good idea; should you be broken and run down the enemy now has Miners VPs + 100VPs for the banner. IMO the extra +1 CR it gives isn't worth it for the job they are given.
Your right I have not thought of it. ^_^ Because me miners have not broke before from shooting.
I like Miners, but the figures, in the game i prefer units like Ironbreakers or even Dwarves with two-handed weapon, because you can give them a shield, heavy armour and weapon, so they can save in close combat normaly (is this correct?...damn i have to practise)
DonÂ´t try to hide, i can smell your corruption...
I like miners too. Most otehr armies have skirmishing scouts and units to appear behind your vital spots so its nice to be able to sneak up and deliver a little surprise on your own. If you wanna win big with dwarfs throw on your tactics hat. It might seem that we're restricted but you've got to be on your toes and be creative to get those massacres. Miners can help but DANG! you gotta know what you're doing. Same with rangers, we dwarfs have to capitalise on all the tricks we can to be competitive with the latest cheese heads and power gamers.
Either way you do the math, it all adds up to you goin' down
you don't need to set them up as underground advance, in the deployment, just have them on the corner ready to be seted up and your opponnent will ask if they are miners, and will have to consider them in is deployment, and you can simply set them up with the rest if need be, thus disrupting the opponnent's now useless precautions.
I really like the appearing on the flank more than warchine hunting, as a cannon can do this fairly easely. miners conbined to a gyrocopter can prove to be really effect in the anvil tech, and big march blocking.
yesterday my VC friend was positioning his dire wolves, and fell bats to take my cannon, so i brung in my miners, and took those out. and a grape shot took out his dire wolves.
Mr. Burns: Why is everyone being so insolent today?
Smithers: Well sir, it is christmas...
Mr. Burns: I'll decide when its christmas!
I ALWAYS bring a unit of miners along. First of all they are great models, and they fit the dwarf army fluff like a glove. I find them a very welcome addition, as they give the stunties something we all know they lack: unpredictability.
They really do keep your opponent guessing, and they make great plugs in waeker parts of you battle lines. They also excel at grabbing table quarters and enemy warmachines. If playing horde armies, one of these units popping up on the enemies very large flank is a treat.
Ah loves mah minahs.
But then there's always the chance that they will get lost in the tunnels..... or the nearest tavern.
I kill two dwarves in the morning, I kill two dwarves at night. I kill two dwarves in the afternoon, and then I feel allright. I kill two dwarves in time of peace, and two in time of war. I kill two dwarves before I kill two dwarves, and then I kill two more.
Goblin kroozade of revengyness: win:19 draw:10 loss:9
I'd like to plop a nice juicy unit of miners up a skaven flank. Roll that sucker like a bowling ball down centre lane, STRIKE!
I like the idea of Miner Gyrocopter combination. That could be carnage.
Either way you do the math, it all adds up to you goin' down