Organ gun VS Cannon - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Organ gun VS Cannon

    Hi,

    ive just bought a battalion and a box of warriors, and am just thinking about what to make.

    I haven't thought of a list yet either, which could take some helping with ( if its ok with any mods, it would be good if i could use a small section of my post to discuss my list, rather then making another post on the atmy list forums. ).

    first of all, ill be playing some [500] points games for a few weeks, and then moving onto [1000]. Keeping thios in mind, i want to make my units into the most flexible and useful things possible for my first few points games. after [1000], ill have to buy more troops anyway, so its really about making the most flexable/powerful balance for starters.

    Is there any must haves for any of you ? heres a few of the questions im thinking...

    Thunderers VS quarellers - I have always liked thunderers, but with recent rule changes ( move and shoot.. ) it made me think a little more. Many people still use thunderers over quarells, but i would just like some thoughts. Does the extra range really help for small point games ? Keep in mind i just want to have a flexable list, although i would have thought thunderers still take priority .. although are they worth 3 points more ?

    Great weapon VS shields - Generally, on my warriors ive always thought you cant go wrong with making 2 solid units with HW&shield for starters. These work as solid holders, a great alterinitive to breakers at this points levels. But, i wondered wether making a small unit of 10 flankers may work ? shall i leave this to the next points ranges where bigger units appear ?

    Organ gun VS Cannon - This was organally my main question, but it developed. I really am having a hard time choosing this. At first, i thought ill just go with a good old cannon, cant go wrong thier ? but then i started to think more. Would this be best ? My [500] list ( scroll down ) included a cannon/organ, and i thought here a organ would certaintly be more useful. wouldnt be enough targets for my cannon. But, what is more valueable at [1000] first of all ? here is a place im thinking of buying 2 bolt throwers aswell if i have enough money ( and points, depends alot on other choices ). So would the cannon work better ?

    [500] list. ( bear in mind i put the cannon in for the fact that it could be fun, and its less to paint, im looking to play soon )

    thane [76]
    ROS
    GW
    shield

    15 warriors [150]
    shields
    standard , musician

    organ gun/cannon [120]/[105]
    engineer

    10 thunderers/ 12 quarallers [140]/[132]

    this still leaves points .. suggestions ? taking the cheaper options would mean i can bump the warriors to 19.. but then that is also dependant on the above questions, i want to make them into the best thing possible. Suggestions for upgrades to [1000] would also be very helpful. again, any must haves ( i guess youl all say BT ? ) are welcome here.

    Thanks for reading my post ( i hope you did ! ill never forget this if you dont... pointy ears ! ) and i hope you can help me.

    Creme egg

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  3. #2
    Bearded Ninja Arklite's Avatar
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    451 (x8)

    generally organ guns out do cannons until the 2000 point stage where more large monsters/ cavalry units appear that deserve the cannonry. the organ is evil at low end games thanks to its high damage potential and ability to maul anything with a save worse than 2+ (the -3 mod pretty much ruins everything else)

    on quarrellers vs thunderers: thunderers have a +1 to hit and -2 from the enemy armour save compared to the crossbow's -1 to save and extra range. thats the main difference.

    id add a champion to your infantry units as well. out of personal preference i always take a full command. the champion makes a difference by give you not only an extra attack but thanks to the rules on casualties he can always attack even if you have lost a number of models equivalent to the front rank.

    -Arklite


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    Thanks for the reply.

    But i still cant really choose thund's or quarall's. I know the differences, and generally the thunderers seem better, but when you consider the huge points difference once you start taking units of them, made me think. I still probably prefer thunderers currently, but id prefer a few opinions and solid expereince cant go wrong, what do they do in your games ?


    About the champion : i usally would, but i wa just giving a skeleton list, based alot of the desicions of the questions above it.

    Thanks alot for the cannon/organ help though, that was one of my thouhgts, but i wasnt sure.

    creme egg
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    currently working on :

    second unit of skellys

    most likely thing next :

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    Bearded Ninja Arklite's Avatar
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    451 (x8)

    well when looking at thunderers and quarrelers you have to know what you are after, hard hitting or harrasment. i personally field out of having the old models.

    quarrellers are a good harrasment unit, causing damage from near enough turn one giving your foe a reason to come to you. it also gives you more points to play with for the rest of your army.

    thunderers are a hard hitting option for the direct aproach. they are ment for killing and do a very good job at it. the greater armour penitraition gives them a shot at heavy infantry (3+ save) an still do some hefty damage. the +1 to hit helps this as well be making those hits more often.

    its basically power vs harrasment


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    [16:19] <@Alzer> Arky's right though
    [16:20] <@Kaiser-> I know he is.
    [16:20] <@Kaiser-> He usually is.
    [16:20] <@Kaiser-> Sometimes it's intentional.
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    [00:01] <+zubus> i love you, ya skirt wearin nothern monkey! ^_^

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    I'd say it depends on who you're going up against. The main advantage with quarellers is that you can still move and shoot. The extra range helps alot too when it comes to hitting enemy war machines. You can hop forward a few inches, and let loose some bolts on the crew of any machine within 30 inches.

    Thunderers however are much more accurate, and definitely pack more of a punch.
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    Bearded Ninja Arklite's Avatar
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    451 (x8)

    I'd say it depends on who you're going up against. The main advantage with quarellers is that you can still move and shoot. The extra range helps alot too when it comes to hitting enemy war machines. You can hop forward a few inches, and let loose some bolts on the crew of any machine within 30 inches.
    sorry but quarrelers are equiped with crossbows which are stand or shoot as detailed in the main rule book


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    [16:19] <@Alzer> Arky's right though
    [16:20] <@Kaiser-> I know he is.
    [16:20] <@Kaiser-> He usually is.
    [16:20] <@Kaiser-> Sometimes it's intentional.
    ----
    [00:01] <+zubus> i love you, ya skirt wearin nothern monkey! ^_^

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    Rgr, guess I'm used to DE ones.
    The Hierarchy Chaotica: Kinky Sex > Change > Disease > Blood

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    Thanks again for the replys.

    im fiarly sure ill go with thunderers now, what do you think of my [500] list ? im thinking it could be a little unflexable.

    About the cannon/organ thing again, ive just been reading through some tacticas, all value cannons very highly and consider them important parts of the army. could i get any other opinions on them, or if you would arklite, post again
    fantasy

    vampire counts ( under construction)

    40k

    am thinking about starting it again

    currently working on :

    second unit of skellys

    most likely thing next :

    another box of skellys .....

  10. #9
    Bearded Ninja Arklite's Avatar
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    451 (x8)

    heheheh nice to be wanted

    *cracks knuckles*

    well at 500 points there is not a huge amount you can do with dwarves, its either all shooting, all combat or a mix. a mix is your best choice. youve gone slightly towards the shooting side with this and its no problem. the list may be inflexable but we dwarves dont have much choice on that matter until 2000 (or possibly 1500). but dont let you put that off inflexablity from a set plan is a trade mark of a dwarf army and can be used to our advantage. people will never take magic against you, nor will they take chariots, this is a good thing.

    on the list however. i see nothing really wrong, thane will be with the warriors i presume and you have enough shooting to make a real difference (not to mention the organ guns auto hits) all in all a good list with no glaring loop holes if you fight against a ballenced army.


    as for cannons, im not a huge fan. alot of players concider them critical but i find other was to do their jobs. the organ gun is good against knights (one of the cannons jobs) and the grudge thrower just mauls monsters and ranked infantry (another one of the cannons jobs) the advantage the cannon has is accuracy. with a good gues and bonce you can literally snipe enemy large monsters and chariots with ease. i however found that bolt throwers with engineers and runes of penitrating can do that job and im a darn good guess with a grudge thrower. for a starting dwarfarmy however i reccomend one in the future (1000 points +) as it lets you get a real feel for guessing without the damands of the grudge thrower (you need to be a near perfect guess while the cannon you underguess with, letting the over shoot and bounce travel to your target.
    Last edited by Arklite; May 29th, 2006 at 23:46.


    spambot kill tally: 79


    [16:19] <@Alzer> Arky's right though
    [16:20] <@Kaiser-> I know he is.
    [16:20] <@Kaiser-> He usually is.
    [16:20] <@Kaiser-> Sometimes it's intentional.
    ----
    [00:01] <+zubus> i love you, ya skirt wearin nothern monkey! ^_^

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