Saim-Hann Eldar List (1750pts of old-fashioned Eldar)

[Bonachinonin]

I've played a Saim Hann themed eldar army since I started my eldar. They caught my eye with their red and racing stripes and are probably the best looking army on a table. And as they are my only army of a size large enough to go to tournaments I field them exclusively for a couple years now. That being said I will throw in my concerns with your list from a competitive point of view. When I create a list I still keep the theme to heart, but there are some things I have come to terms with.

Looking at your list, I feel you lack anti-tank. The council unit is rather small but that helps keep points down. I use a jetseer council with 6 locks and farseer. I almost never upgrade spears and when I do its just 1 or 2. They almost always end up in combat, either protecting my army or aggressively going at the enemy. And one attack doesn't cut it. These guys will win you games, and cost you games I realize. Some games the enemy cannot stop them, others they field a rune priest and laugh all game. Other times the dice just don't like you. My experiences are so mixed with this council unit but over all I like them. I run identical troops, but be warned, relying on GJB's to win you games SUCKS. Their low model count and leadership has lost me easy games. I use vypers as well. I run a single 3 man unit with scatters and shuricannon. 21 str 6 shots is pretty hefty. I might try 2 man squads, for some reason it never occured to me to run them smaller. But they are oh so fragile. Your multiple squads are easy kill points that really hurt your firepower if you lose them too. As for your heavy support. I usually go 2 prisms, since it only takes two to make a str 10 blast. How ever I feel you upgraded too much on them. Their long range is their defense and holo-fields and SS are unneccessary. Also with how quick Saim hann is. The night spinner plays with that strength limiting the enemies mobility and forcing pinning checks.

To field eldar in a competitive environment I feel you need fire dragons. No way around it. And if you are worried about breaking fluff, they are still mounted in a wave serpent. Saim hann utilizes the speed and firepower of its wild host but it still uses foot infantry. Can't fly inside after all! And i'm not sure if you have played necrons yet, but relying on str 6 spam is no longer the way out. You can link prisms, but i'm sure you experienced cover saves before. I hit! I pen! Necron player saves... Your warlocks could throw spears, but if they are in range to do that, either the CCB is flying over your army or you are about to be charged by wraiths or scarabs. Also see solar pulse. Fire dragons like em or not. Another thing I've noticed is I am extremely vulnerable to outflankers. Especially the kind that appear from any edge like wolf scouts or ymgarls. When I play, my army is kind of like water. They push on it and it gives way while hitting the exposed areas they've left behind. But they start coming out of everywhere, I got no where to run. And eldar can't take too many hits before running out of steam. Heh, played a tyranid where he went heavy reserve list and made me go first. It appears GJB are fast enough and to cover both table side edges by turn two. Sucks for them outflanking stealers.

Lastly, all the above posts about shining spears. I bought mine to fully realize the Saim hann theme. But competitively they dont cut it. By the time you tool them up they are 250 points and die to rhino bolter shots. Yes they can do damage. But when I go to tournments, the stuff they can charge that will earn their points back will usually beat them instead. Or its a minimum sized squad that will probably bait them into their death. You could put an autarch with them, but really its just the autarch doing damage. Might as well give him to a GJB squad so they can use his leadership and break him off when the time comes. Ironically my favorite thing about the spears is their BS 4 catapults and the BS 5 cannon. Unless you are an eldar guru who can make magic happen, I'd leave them at home.

All that said, I love the eldar and they perform really well. Just some times it feels like I bring knives to a gun fight. But that is probably just the codex creep.

[MrRe-roll]

Wow nice feedback dude thank's a lot.Well I have played against Necrons some games but the those guys used a lot of Night/Doom Scythes so had no real problem.In fact my Vypers did miracles ended up killing aout 3-4 vehicles.Of course I used Alpha-strike tactics and that hurted much when Necrons returned fire but it wasn't that bad after all.
Fire Dragons are essential this is true so I will try to figure out this list again and post it with the modifications.

Lastly I would like to ask whether fielding the GJB in 6 squads of 3 with a Cannon each one instaed of 3 squads of 6 would be a good choice.I tend to belive that I lack the bulk of the Troop choice to pull a game through given that GJB can easily die. Squads of 3 can hide easier and just like DE I give many targets so they are spoiled for choice.Yes they will die even faster BUT the overal impact that they have on the game will be reduced.

[Bonachinonin]

I like 6 man squads. Or 7 with the warlock. It shows you haven't resigned your troops to objective grabbers only. With two cannons and 8 catapult shots you may kill something. I typically reserve one squad regardless of the opponent in case things go south, just so I have scoring units. Against tyranids with a doom of malantai, I reserve them all and hope he comes in before they do. Its like an instant 10 wounds otherwise. Another setup pretty fun, is 12 with 4 cannons, warlock with spear, and farseer with fortune and doom with spear. Its quite alot of damage that can tank hunt and needs dedicated fire to get rid of. A 3 man squad could work in your list as an objective grabber, but typically work better if they are not the theme of your army.

Necrons around here use lots of AV 13. My bikes just derp around until I happen to pen one. Been using falcons more cause of it. Prisms suck so hard as tank killers when you rely on them.

[MrRe-roll]

Ok I altered the list to be a bit more tourney without of course loosing it's Saim-Hann style.
Here we go:

HQ

Farseer/Jetbike/Fortune/Doom(maybe Guide)/SS/RoW 175
Warlock/Jetbike/Destructor
Warlock/Jetbike/Destructor
Warlock/Jetbike/Embolden
Warlock/Jetbike/Enhance Unit Total: 220

Troops

3 Guardians Jetbikes/1 Shuriken Cannon
3 Guardians Jetbikes/1 Shuriken Cannon
3 Guardians Jetbikes/1 Shuriken Cannon
3 Guardians Jetbikes/1 Shuriken Cannon
3 Guardians Jetbikes/1 Shuriken Cannon
3 Guardians Jetbikes/1 Shuriken Cannon

Elites

5 Fire Dragons/Wave Serpent/Twin-linked Shuriken Cannon/Star Engines
5 Fire Dragons/Wave Serpent/Twin-linked Shuriken Cannon/Star Engines

Fast Attack

2 Vypers/2 Scatter Lassers/2 Shuriken Cannons
2 Vypers/2 Scatter Lassers/2 Shuriken Cannons

Heavy Support

Fire Prism
Fire Prism


Ok I decided to break the big Guardians squads into small squads of 3. This way
1)I maximize my Troops choices
2)Make my Jetbikes more mobile as the can hide easier and work more idependently
3)Give my opponents more targets to deal with
4)Make my army more resistant to heavy losses. This is extremely important if I lose a squad of 6 Jetbikes the 1/3 of my Troops choices is gone. This is pretty easy to happen as they have Ld 8 and the tend to ''break'' very often.

2 squads of Fire Dragons added to deal with Heavy Armor and in return I lose one squad of Vypers and one Prism.

Any comments?