A lesson learned. AP2 drought

[Jackolas]

Yesterday we went somewhere new to game and therefore played against some new armies. I played against Blood Angels for the first time. WTF!?

The problem I found, wasn't that I didn't have enough high strength weaponry, it was that I didn't have enough AP2 stuff... and since when did marines get so fast?!

It was 1850 points and I had 2 prisms, 2 squads of fire dragons and an Autarch with a fusion gun as my AP1 stuff. And lots of strength 6 and 8 shots. 4 strength 8 Missile launchers and 30+ Strength 6 from Vypers and Walker squad. But I couldn't have enough AP 2 stuff. If you're playing an all comers list, how are you supposed to cater to fight hoardes and blood angels/grey knights with the Eldar Codex? All the AP2 stuff seems vastly over priced.

I know the Eldar codex can pack a punch but I don't find it all that consistent. Any advice here for set ups? My normal 1,500 point standard list can be found below: (I made up the extra points putting prisms and autarch in)

It just doesn't have enough AP2 stuff -Star Cannons are too expensive. Fire Prisms scatter too easily off small squads of terminators/other 2+ models. And Fire Dragons need to get seriously lucky to nail a full squad of terminators and kill them all in one turn... But if you swap the weapons out on walkers you lose your hoarde killing ability... HELP!?

HQ

Farseer
+ RoWard
+ Guide/Doom (either/or)
+ Spear

Troops

5x Dire Avengers
+ Wave Serpent
+ T-L EML
+ Spirit stones

5x Dire Avengers
+ Wave Serpent
+ T-L EML
+ Spirit stones

5x Dire Avengers
+ Wave Serpent
+ T-L EML
+ Spirit stones

5x Dire Avengers
+ Wave Serpent
+ T-L EML
+ Spirit stones

Elites

5x Fire Dragons
+ Wave Serpent
+ T-L Shuriken Cannon
+ Spirit stones

5x Fire Dragons
+ Wave Serpent
+ T-L Shuriken Cannon
+ Spirit stones

Fast Attack:
2x Vyper
+ Shuriken Cannon
+ U-S Cannon

Heavy Support
3x Walkers
+4x Shurkien Cannon
+2x Scatter Laser

Total: 1,493/8

[kkedlar123]

eldar just have a problem with this... FNP sucks...

i run a seer council w/atarch:

farseer: RoWard, Bike, Spear, Fortune

Autarch: Bike, FG, Laser Lance, Mandiblasters

5 Warlocks on Bikes:
- 3 destructor (one or two w/ spears)
- 1 enhance
- 1 embolden

the real killer is the autarch w/6 S6 power weapon attacks on the charge at I7... everything else is just kinda there to be scary and hard to kill...

i guess what i'm saying is an autarch w/ laser lance kills small squads of marines really good and is a good dynamic choice for your army (giving +1 to reserves and a FG for some AT)

its better than star cannons because your opponent doesnt get cover... it does have weaknesses...
- the unit's a lot of points
- you need to charge or you're screwed

but it also has some strengths...
- killy on the charge
- hard to kill if you get fortune off
- kills tanks w/shooting (you can use the fusion gun and 3 spears to pop a tank then charge the guys inside) and from charging (this squad is really good against dreds)
- also, if you model the bases at the right height, you can make sure everything behind it gets a cover save

other than the seer council, i just ingnor the normal dudes and try to pop all their tanks... besides, you dont really need to kill the marines on foot(just tank shock at the end of the game for the win)

anyway, my 2 cents

[Soulforge]

Well the way I would play it is try to ignore the horde as much as possible. Most horde stuff isn't equipped to take down wave serpents, and its a matter of a bit of luck, good maneuvering, and eldar shenanigans to keep them away.

You may want to invest on some rocket launchers on the war walkers for anti FNP on those T4 3+ models. The rockets, when masses can really put a dent into hordes too, if you need them to.

On the other hand, this strategy WILL NOT WORK on terminators. They still get that 2+, so it becomes next to useless to shoot one rocket at them, rather than 3-4 S6 shots from other weapons.

So it really comes down to what do you want each part of your army to do. Eldar specialize, its in our blood. I would recomend looking at each part of your list, and really refining what you want it to do. For example you may want to seperate it into something like this:

Anti horde/non FNP mech (small guys):
DA in serpents
Prisms

Anti FNP/2+/Monstrous Creatures (Big dudes):
War walkers
Vypers

Anti-Mech:
Fire Dragons


And I mean REALLY do this. If you put your war walkers in the anti-big-guys category, don't also expect them to help out your anti-horde and anti-mech. If you put your prisms in the anti-mech side, don't shoot at the small guys untill its job is DONE.

Generally this is just a better way of thinking about list building. Multi classing is O.K., such as having your War Walkers with a major in Anti-mech and a minor in anti-horde, but remember they don't have to do both roles, and shouldn't be expected to! This is why we started eldar after all, we wanted a specialized army list, where each individual unit could only handle one thing, but together create a solid army.

Well I hope this paradigm shift helps. I know sometimes I need someone else to help me see a different view of things, and hopefully this helps.