Mech Eldar List Building

[FartsMcGee]

Yeah apologies about the non-dedicated transport thing. Someone kept me from winning a game with that one time and clearly it was a misinterpretation of the rules. He just read me the vehicle part of it.

I don't know why I wouldn't use the banshees to drop the higher toughness higher save models. Granted a T7 fex is a scary thing and banshees are CLEARLY not the right choice there, but the T6 stuff with 30 dice with re-roll to wound typically means that you are going to win combat each time. My ladies eat hive tyrants. In terms of horde control for the ladies i can't afford to loose a single model, and in a toe to toe fight with a 30 stack of boys i'm bound to loose at least a third of my ladies in the first round of combat. Once that edge goes I'm cooked, now not only do I not have my assault dice but i don't even have 20 dice, and even if i'm looking for re-roll to wound I can't stay in the fight that long.. guard is far less of a concern. What I'm really worried about is space wolves. Holy cow are we gonna be in for it. Stacks of 20 marines with combat tactics, they shall know no fear, and more than likely base 2 attacks!? Its going to be ugly ugly ugly. I'm also thinking that they are gonna be giving out some really scary fists everywhere. Banshees, bladestorm, councils whatever, it is going to be tough business stopping orc marines.

My point about the prisms wasn't that they draw all the fire, my point was that it doesn't take much fire to shut em down, and that most armies will have some means of producing it, while still running some anti-tank against your waveserpents.

Something else that i thought should be brought up in a thread for new to mech eldar is our inherent weaknesses.

Low armor values are a big problem for us, even though we have all sorts of trickery to negate the low armor it poses a fairly major problem for us be cause a str 7 gun is just about as dangerous as a str 10 gun.

Second: Inherently low model counts. This one hurts a ton because it means that there is very little room for error. When a piece of the machine fails unexpectedly it has a nasty tendency to take the rest of the army with it.

Third: Power Fists/Claws/Krak and Melta nades. For horde and foot slogging armies these weapons are typically of very little consequence, for us it takes our mobility away, when our transports start to spill our few models about everywhere its painful.

Fourth: Insufficient killing power. Some might disagree with me about this but even given bladestorm and prism shots we can't match the fire power of other armies and its easy to get drawn into a shoot out if we're not careful.

Fifth: Very little staying power. Once we get out or shot out of our transports it has to end quickly.

So when playing mech eldar you have to work to minimize these weaknesses and do everything you can to keep your opponent from exploiting them. This usually entails surgical strikes at heavy support units, proper application of counter point units (i.e. wraithlords), and a LOT of fortune and cover saves, and probably most importantly keep your vehicles OUT OF ASSAULT unless you are giving them 6's to hit from a flat out, but even then its still risky.

Oh and a couple of rules that you will get called on a lot.

1. YES you can tank shock through buildings, you just have to take a dangerous terrain check.

2. YES you can cast doom, fortune, and guide from inside a transport. You MAY NOT cast it to the inside of a different transport. You MAY NOT cast mind war or eldrich storm from inside a vehicle. You DO NOT need line of sight for any of the non-shooting abilities.

3. YES you can move and assault banshees out of a transport as long as it didn't move AT ALL (including the free pivot) before they disembarked. The transport MAY move and shoot still, just not flat out.

4. NO you can't ram for a str 11 or above hit.

5. Wave serpents DO NOT allow for extra dice on rending (from shooting) on front and side armor

6. YES Banshees do assault into cover and go first.

7. YES Star engines let you move 36". 24" in the movement phase and 12" in the shooting.

8. YES you can selectively tank shock by flying over units that you don't want to tank shock. Which REALLY makes people mad.

9. Movement with a skimmer is ALWAYS horizontal, even if they are going up or down.

10. YES you really can park your skimmer there. Just be sure to take a terrain check EVERY TIME you start AND end a movement phase there.

[ericismyname]

I am on vacation, so I will respond to this and edit accordingly when I get back.

[ericismyname]

Originally Posted by FartsMcGee

Yeah apologies about the non-dedicated transport thing. Someone kept me from winning a game with that one time and clearly it was a misinterpretation of the rules. He just read me the vehicle part of it. No problem.

I don't know why I wouldn't use the banshees to drop the higher toughness higher save models. Granted a T7 fex is a scary thing and banshees are CLEARLY not the right choice there, but the T6 stuff with 30 dice with re-roll to wound typically means that you are going to win combat each time. My ladies eat hive tyrants. In terms of horde control for the ladies i can't afford to loose a single model, and in a toe to toe fight with a 30 stack of boys i'm bound to loose at least a third of my ladies in the first round of combat. Once that edge goes I'm cooked, now not only do I not have my assault dice but i don't even have 20 dice, and even if i'm looking for re-roll to wound I can't stay in the fight that long.. guard is far less of a concern. What I'm really worried about is space wolves. Holy cow are we gonna be in for it. Stacks of 20 marines with combat tactics, they shall know no fear, and more than likely base 2 attacks!? Its going to be ugly ugly ugly. I'm also thinking that they are gonna be giving out some really scary fists everywhere. Banshees, bladestorm, councils whatever, it is going to be tough business stopping orc marines.Well Charging 10 banshees into a full squad of boyz before they have been softened up is foolish anyway. Eldar is meant to be used in conjuction with eachother. Use blade storming DAs to soften up the DOOMED target, then charge the ladies in. And if you are really scared...charge the DA in as well. Then less attacks may be designated towards the banshees...exspecially if you charge the DA in first.

Dont let the big squads scare you, they are MORE afraid of 3 attack I10 power weapon dancing banshees. Keep them in a waveserpeat, keep them with a doomseer ( I use doom/fortune seer for anything over 100 and have them roll 2 wave serpeants deep. Always have support. If this cant be done....Soften up the targets with heavy weapons first.....

For example when I was facing 3 full squads of boyz.....I deployed my banshees. Doomed their target. Rolled the wave serpeant up and shot at my target. Moved up the other wave serpeant to the side of the boyz. Dropped DAs, Then used a prism shot on the 3rd group almost killing all of them. Blade stormed a 2nd group...sending them running. Then assaulted the last DOOMED one with the banshees, winning combat and sweeping advancing them. Then the DAs serpeant was block most LoS agains the banshees.....the next turn everyone gets back in transport...

I always always always work together and concentrate my efforts. ALWAYS.

My point about the prisms wasn't that they draw all the fire, my point was that it doesn't take much fire to shut em down, and that most armies will have some means of producing it, while still running some anti-tank against your waveserpents.
The same is true for anyones heavy weapon weilding tanks. Its apart of the game.

Something else that i thought should be brought up in a thread for new to mech eldar is our inherent weaknesses.

Low armor values are a big problem for us, even though we have all sorts of trickery to negate the low armor it poses a fairly major problem for us be cause a str 7 gun is just about as dangerous as a str 10 gun. armor 12 isnt that bad. and that is true. However any other army...str 10 is way more dangerous than str 7. We are lucky.

Second: Inherently low model counts. This one hurts a ton because it means that there is very little room for error. When a piece of the machine fails unexpectedly it has a nasty tendency to take the rest of the army with it.Agreed. Be frugile on upgrades, sometimes 1-2 more models in a squad can make a difference.

Third: Power Fists/Claws/Krak and Melta nades. For horde and foot slogging armies these weapons are typically of very little consequence, for us it takes our mobility away, when our transports start to spill our few models about everywhere its painful.

Fourth: Insufficient killing power. Some might disagree with me about this but even given bladestorm and prism shots we can't match the fire power of other armies and its easy to get drawn into a shoot out if we're not careful.

Fifth: Very little staying power. Once we get out or shot out of our transports it has to end quickly.

So when playing mech eldar you have to work to minimize these weaknesses and do everything you can to keep your opponent from exploiting them. This usually entails surgical strikes at heavy support units, proper application of counter point units (i.e. wraithlords), and a LOT of fortune and cover saves, and probably most importantly keep your vehicles OUT OF ASSAULT unless you are giving them 6's to hit from a flat out, but even then its still risky.

Oh and a couple of rules that you will get called on a lot.

1. YES you can tank shock through buildings, you just have to take a dangerous terrain check.

2. YES you can cast doom, fortune, and guide from inside a transport. You MAY NOT cast it to the inside of a different transport. You MAY NOT cast mind war or eldrich storm from inside a vehicle. You DO NOT need line of sight for any of the non-shooting abilities.

3. YES you can move and assault banshees out of a transport as long as it didn't move AT ALL (including the free pivot) before they disembarked. The transport MAY move and shoot still, just not flat out.

4. NO you can't ram for a str 11 or above hit.

5. Wave serpents DO NOT allow for extra dice on rending (from shooting) on front and side armor

6. YES Banshees do assault into cover and go first.

7. YES Star engines let you move 36". 24" in the movement phase and 12" in the shooting.

8. YES you can selectively tank shock by flying over units that you don't want to tank shock. Which REALLY makes people mad.

9. Movement with a skimmer is ALWAYS horizontal, even if they are going up or down.

10. YES you really can park your skimmer there. Just be sure to take a terrain check EVERY TIME you start AND end a movement phase there.These are awesome! Added.'

Thanks for your input

[Elendor]

Wow, amazing guide! My mech stuff is on its way, and I can't wait to try out a mech list.

On a side note, I think it should be mentioned that if a Striking Scorpion Exarch takes a claw, he still has his chainsabre. Thus, I believe you can choose which weapon to attack with. I did this in my last game; I needed him to attack at I6 so I chose not to use the claw that turn. So basically you could choose to either attack at S6 I1 or at S4 I6.

[ericismyname]

Originally Posted by Elendor

Wow, amazing guide! My mech stuff is on its way, and I can't wait to try out a mech list.

On a side note, I think it should be mentioned that if a Striking Scorpion Exarch takes a claw, he still has his chainsabre. Thus, I believe you can choose which weapon to attack with. I did this in my last game; I needed him to attack at I6 so I chose not to use the claw that turn. So basically you could choose to either attack at S6 I1 or at S4 I6.

That is correct, I will add it.

[Fleeting Æther]

A tactic I learned from Fritz at WayOfSaimHann, is when placing objectives in Seize Ground (3-5 objectives,) is to place one of your objectives exactly 12" away from another objective, this way you Wave Serpent (if placed in the correct way) can be contesting or controlling 2 objectives at once due to it's immense length (I believe they're roughly 7" long, even longer if you have the Forgeworld variant upgrade.) I use this trick all the time, and it frustrates opponents to no end when you can dedicate forces needed elsewhere due to one troop doing double duty on a pair of objectives. As most Eldar tactics are, this is an excelent force multiplier since you can accomplish more tasks with less units, and with mech Eldar, we need to be able to do as many things as we can with the units we have in the time we are allowed.

[ericismyname]

Originally Posted by Fleeting Æther

A tactic I learned from Fritz at WayOfSaimHann, is when placing objectives in Seize Ground (3-5 objectives,) is to place one of your objectives exactly 12" away from another objective, this way you Wave Serpent (if placed in the correct way) can be contesting or controlling 2 objectives at once due to it's immense length (I believe they're roughly 7" long, even longer if you have the Forgeworld variant upgrade.) I use this trick all the time, and it frustrates opponents to no end when you can dedicate forces needed elsewhere due to one troop doing double duty on a pair of objectives. As most Eldar tactics are, this is an excelent force multiplier since you can accomplish more tasks with less units, and with mech Eldar, we need to be able to do as many things as we can with the units we have in the time we are allowed.

I cant believe I forgot that! I have even done this and validated it on LO rule board. Added.

[Speed]

Couple of things to contest

Eldar jetbikes in squads of 6 or more with 2 or more cannons should be expected to do the job that is laid for them! and that's shred those rhinos. side armor is not difficult when you have jetbikes, so smack it. Although it is true, other than that they're solely for objective holding.

and second fire dragons don't need the exarch. Six of them in a transport is a kamikaze free kill. They get the job done, but are expected to die shortly after. unless guys at the place you play are strange in the head.

[ericismyname]

Originally Posted by Speed

Couple of things to contest

Eldar jetbikes in squads of 6 or more with 2 or more cannons should be expected to do the job that is laid for them! and that's shred those rhinos. side armor is not difficult when you have jetbikes, so smack it. Although it is true, other than that they're solely for objective holding. Jetbikes are not THAT good at side armor. str 6 against most side armor 11s. 5s to glance, 6 to pen. They can be good at rear armor. I will not suggest taking a unit for the sole purpose of destroying rhinos since many many many other eldar units can do that along with many other things. They are good at harassing the enemy and stealing objectives, and sometimes drawing fire.

and second fire dragons don't need the exarch. Six of them in a transport is a kamikaze free kill. They get the job done, but are expected to die shortly after. unless guys at the place you play are strange in the headNo one said they needed an exarch. NO ONE can deny that the exarch is a powerful addition to the squad. And there ARE times when your squad isnt killed after destroying a tank. Leaving you 1 or 2 dragons left and when your left with a foot mobile 18" melta gun with +1str hes not as uselss as 2 dragons with 12" melta guns. .

Thanks for your input.

[Speed]

I get what you're saying, I'm sure there are times when the full squad isn't wiped.. I've just never been handy enough to have those times. Are you sure that pivoting cancels the charge? I thought it didn't change anything and it was something free a vehicle could do.. Otherwise I've cheated once or twice on accident.