Does the Conceal Warlock Power Stack? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Blackadder's Avatar
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    Does the Conceal Warlock Power Stack?

    As title - basically I'm building a seer council list for fun games (and maybe the odd Gw game) and I'm wondering what stuff to give the warlocks.

    The 2 Farseers have Doom and Guide respectively, and I wasn't really thinking of using this unit up close and personal, due to the fact that i think it'd get torn up in CC pretty easily, so ranged survivability is key.

    So bascially what i was wondering was that if i buy conceal on multiple warlocks (say 3) and then get all 3 of them to use it, does the cover stack? So say it'd go from a 5+ to a 3/2+? And in either case of stack or no stack, would the seers get their 4+ invul with it.

    Another question actually, do they always get their 4+ invul? It's just my current understanding of invuls is that you get them if the shot goes through armour, the seers dont have an armour save and only an invul, so surely they'd always get that 4+ save?

    And finally, what would you suggest taking with the seer council power wise and how should it be used? I'm a bit of a noob eldar player, only ever testing like a 500pt list so yeah, that's where I'm at

    EDIT: Another quick question - say I did kit out the seer council for CC, would this be a viable build for such a unit?

    Doomseer

    Destructorlock

    Enhancelock

    Emboldenlock

    If we consider that if we roll out the psychic powers before assaulting, then the unit to be assaulted gets doomed for a re-roll to wound (which with the witch-blades should mean a near 100% wound rate), gets destructored, which is in effect a heavy flamer before-hand, the seers themselves get enhanced, and so have +1 WS and I for WS6 & I6 on the Farseer, and WS & I 5 on the Warlocks, and embolden making it less likely they'll run away, AND the +1 attack for charging in (and maybe +1 for using their shuriken pistols as an additional hand weapon) - does that sound like a half-decent close combat unit for finishing off enemy troops?

    Thanks.

    Last edited by Blackadder; June 6th, 2012 at 12:30.

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  3. #2
    LO Zealot SJPhillyVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackadder View Post

    So bascially what i was wondering was that if i buy conceal on multiple warlocks (say 3) and then get all 3 of them to use it, does the cover stack? So say it'd go from a 5+ to a 3/2+?
    No, it will be a flat 5+ cover save no matter how many you take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackadder View Post

    And in either case of stack or no stack, would the seers get their 4+ invul with it.

    Another question actually, do they always get their 4+ invul? It's just my current understanding of invuls is that you get them if the shot goes through armour, the seers dont have an armour save and only an invul, so surely they'd always get that 4+ save?
    The Farseers and Warlocks will always have their 4+ invulnerable, and can take it against any wound that doesn't ignore invulnerable saves (pretty sure ignoring invulns is very rare or just nonexistant). The rule for saves of any kind, whether armor, cover, or invulnerable, is that if the model has multiple save types, you get to chose which one you want to take if it is allowed. So in this case, taking Conceal on a Seer Council is a waste of points, as their 4+ invuln is a better save and you can always take it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackadder View Post

    And finally, what would you suggest taking with the seer council power wise and how should it be used? I'm a bit of a noob eldar player, only ever testing like a 500pt list so yeah, that's where I'm at

    EDIT: Another quick question - say I did kit out the seer council for CC, would this be a viable build for such a unit?

    Doomseer

    Destructorlock

    Enhancelock

    Emboldenlock

    If we consider that if we roll out the psychic powers before assaulting, then the unit to be assaulted gets doomed for a re-roll to wound (which with the witch-blades should mean a near 100% wound rate), gets destructored, which is in effect a heavy flamer before-hand, the seers themselves get enhanced, and so have +1 WS and I for WS6 & I6 on the Farseer, and WS & I 5 on the Warlocks, and embolden making it less likely they'll run away, AND the +1 attack for charging in (and maybe +1 for using their shuriken pistols as an additional hand weapon) - does that sound like a half-decent close combat unit for finishing off enemy troops?

    Thanks.
    You have the right idea. I've heard on here Seer councils are a good to great CC unit for the reasons you list, but I've never actually used them or seen them. I'd add on a few more Warlocks to your proposed unit for more attacks and more wound allocation. Probably best to give them Destruction, bu it's also not a bad idea with the new Warlocks to double one of the other two powers in case one dies. Also, it's been FAQ'd that Embolden lets you re-roll psychic tests since it is a type of Leadership test, making your Farseers better.

    As you can see though a stacked Seer council can get point heavy, so you kind of need to build the rest of your list around them unless it's a huge point game. Probably what we should be doing with Eldar anyway.

    Might be some better advice from others who've used Seer Councils in games.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Blackadder's Avatar
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    Thanks very much for your reply I've had another great reply over on SecondSphere about the same subject which has certainly opened some other potential doors for what to use the seer council as:-

    . Tank Hunters (the Witchblades count as... str 9, so on the charge thats a crap-tonne of str 9 attacks which might well be on the rear too).

    . MC hunters - especially if it's doomed first - MCs rely on high toughness and wounds to survive, which the seer council can simply ignore with their high number of attacks on the charge, always wounding on 2s (which when you consider doom's re-roll to wound means a hell of a lot of wounds on the monster) - leaving it then down to the monster to try and save close to 18 wounds (assuming you have a council of 6 which charge in) - even on a save of 3+ could certainly do some damage - and this is not counting the heavy flamer destructor shots first.

    I'm currently having a go at making a 750-1000pt list built around a seer council at the moment - I'm not gonna jet-bike them, because frankly I prefer the models on foot and methods of conversion/stuff like the Chapterhouse studios models I just dont like, so it's gonna have to be either a wave-serpent or falcon I'm afraid... unless of course I can find a way to convert jetbikes (or equivalents) without having to chop up the farseer and warlock models at all...

    The current set-up I'm thinking of for the Council is as follows:-

    Farseer - Doom, Fortune, Spirit Stones

    Destructorlock

    Destructorlock

    Enhancelock

    Emboldenlock

    maaaybe... another destructrlock, dunno whether to go for 5 or 6...

    Mounted in either a wave serpent or a falcon, or on jetbikes if I can find a way of converting the current models, but my preference is for a tank transport.

    Speaking of which, can they use their powers from within their transport tank? Say for e.g. can the Farseer Fortune the tank whilst he's inside of it? And if so what effect would it have?

    Thanks

  5. #4
    LO Zealot Farseer Macleod's Avatar
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    You could just throw another warlock in with out any upgrades just so he's one you will always allocate that first wound to. You dont have to upgrade the warlock, its just an option. Just a way to save a few points.

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    I have found the seer council to be an absolute beast in CC. if you fortune it that is. It wasn't neccessarily very killy but it took on a few squads of space wolves and survived.

    On the downside it is a beat of a points sink. I run it at a total of 305 points for about 4 members. This can be costly if they are killed while in the transport.

    Yes conceal is a total waste of points

  7. #6
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    I have converted some 'Jetseer' models for another project, with the idea I could use them as a Jetbike Seer Council as well.

    Farseer Update! |

    This is a blog post of my mainly finished Farseer. The advantages are that you get the still very nice Farseer/Warlock models in all their glory, and all you need is skyboards and the Dark Eldar Jetbike front armour, which comes with spares in each box. Both are easily purchased from Bitz shops on ebay.

    The biggest problem I have with them at the moment is that I am using old metal Farseers/Warlocks which are heavy and magnetising the bases will be a real challenge because the weight is problematic. With new Finecast though this wouldn't be an issue.

    Here is a link to the set I've done, 1 Farseer, 2 Warlocks. Very simple, just have to be pinned.
    JetSeer Council – OP or ‘OP’? |

    Also good to note that with the addition of the Jetbike front armour the skyboard is the same size as an Eldar Jetbike, so your opponents can't complain.

  8. #7
    Senior Member crazedcucco's Avatar
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    I don't bother with Doom on a Seer Council, unless he's using it to support other units. Rerolls on a 2+ doesn't really give you much. Fortune is huge, as it keeps your council alive through a lot of punishment. As a cc unit, they're good at killing walkers, monstrous creatures, and can put some serious hurt on tanks. Note that these are all big problem units for Banshees, so I like to run the units alongside each other. I run an otherwise naked fortuneseer, 3x destructor, 1x enhance, 1x embolden. It's 260 points before a transport, and as long as you don't leave them in front of an infantry gunline, you should be fine. Keep in mind that lasguns can do bad bad things to them, though.

    You can cast your powers from inside transports that aren't shooting attacks (mind war, eldritch storm), and you can cast them on the squad inside the transport with you (but not a squad in another transport), or the transport itself, measuring range from the hull. So your fortuned flat-out wave serpent gets re-rolls to it's cover save. I prefer a wave serpent over a falcon for energy fields, especially with close combat units inside, as you are going to spend a lot of time with your transport in melta range. Also, I'd almost always rather take a fire prism in that heavy slot, the exception being small games where you can't afford a wave serpent and a prism.
    Last edited by crazedcucco; June 27th, 2012 at 22:00. Reason: Points cost error
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  9. #8
    Senior Member nigelboyette's Avatar
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    ive heard a rumor that witchblades are going to be nerfed in 6th ed. is there any truth to this?

  10. #9
    LO Zealot cKerensky's Avatar
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    As far as I remember, they're no longer S9 against vehicles, but they get 2d6 armour pen.

    Not sure, though.

  11. #10
    Senior Member nigelboyette's Avatar
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    s 3 even with 2d6 armour pen wont be as good vs tanks, if they do that to the witchblade i will stop taking the council until the new codex comes out and they drop in points cost or get new weapon options.

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