Ranger/Pathfinder uses?

[hsin_dragon]

Originally Posted by Manu_Forti

Question: What the heck is the SX supposed to be when shooting at tanks?

Rulebook, pg. 32

Originally Posted by Manu_Forti

A lot of Eldar players seem to spend a bit over 100 points on a unit of 10+ Guardians with a heavy weapon platform. (and normally with a warlock + conceal = more like 14
Really that's paying well over 100 points for basically 1 weapon. While it is a more powerful weapon, the squad itself is less efficient point for point because that weapon is the only thing shooting.

Well, it could also be a weapon that can move and shoot and has 10 wounds that are protected by a 5+ cover save all the time.

Originally Posted by Manu_Forti

Personally I prefer Dire Avengers, but what Im saying is if you are willing to take a unit of guardians with platform, then why NOT take rangers/pathfinders?

Heavy weapons go further than you think, but in the end it seems to be a matter of preference.

[Manu_Forti]

Rulebook, pg. 32

No worries.

Well, it could also be a weapon that can move and shoot and has 10 wounds that are protected by a 5+ cover save all the time.

I wasnt disputing the usefulness of that squad. I think they are quiet good. I was merely trying to say that I dont think rangers are a whole lot worse. & in some situations, better.

Heavy weapons go further than you think, but in the end it seems to be a matter of preference.

Depends on a lot of things. Both have pro's and cons. It would be very off topic to discuss it here though.

All in all, Im just saying I think pathfinders are a fine choice. Maybe not the BEST, but certainly not useless.

Cheers

[Cheredanine]

The problem is, as per usual, you can not consider units in isolation. but how they work with the rest of the army, eg, fast moving assault armies- pin them, then hit their assualt elements with yours or pour fire into the pinned troops from other squads, this is only a simple example, and there is always the "how do I kill a Ctan or a greater demon?" questions, to which the answer is rangers or pathfinders

But for some armies, these will work, for others they wont

[Battle-Brother Wags]

Here is my underlying overall (is that a contradictory statement or just a beautiful use of diction on my part?) dilemna which caused me to start this thread -

I want to make an all-comer eldar list. But in reality I only play vs. two armies: Black Templar and Tau. BT cannot be pinned . . . and the Tau list is mechanized with tons of jump-shoot-jump crisis suits. So the pinning doesn't even come into play vs. the BT and if my opponent makes such a big tactical blunder that anything that can be hurt by my pathfinders actually comes under their fire, he's got bigger problems than that anyway. So if I look at Pathfinders just vs. those two armies, would you agree that there is no reason to field them?

BUT, if I am making a simple all-comers list that turns a blind eye to the reality of who I will likely be playing, would you say that Pathfinders are a necessarily useful unit? In other words, if you were going to be playing a single opponent, the race and play style of which would be pulled randomly from a hat, would you consider Pathfinders to be a viable option for your army? A necessary option for your army?

[Cheredanine]

As a general rule for the Eldar, for any given unit ask yourself? what is it there for? what does it do as part of the whole plan? is there anything that can do this better/Cheaper?

So
VS BT fine - no use

VS Tau, it still has some uses, mechanised units eventually get out, pthafinders can take out AV12 but there are probably better ways of spending the points

As a general all rounder, with eldar it really depends on how your army plays, in an eldar army,. the whole should be greater than the some of the parts. You need to derive stratergies to deal with all out assault armies and static shooty armies and occasionally those that mix both. You can not rely on pinning against many armies (cough Chaos, nids cough) and the lack of AP can be a problem against some armis (MEQs), but static shooty armies that lack armour and ranged anti infantry (IG) are at your mercy, equally large monsters that rely on toughness to survive (major demons, Ctan, TMCs) are very threatened by rangers and/or pathfinders

So yest they may have a place in an all round army but then again they may not, it depends what else is in the army

[Lost Nemesis]

Keep in mind the other uses for Rangers/Pathfinders....

They don't have to kill. They don't have to pin.

Throw them in cover, over an objective, and let them hold it while the rest of your army does the killing. They don't have to be good at everything to make them worth taking, and if you're taking them in a general all-comer's list, then I'd say take a small squad of them, between five and six Pathfinders. Lovely models, and they have multiple uses. They really are a rather versatile unit, thinking outside the "must kill must kill!" train of thought.

[Sycophant]

I like to use my Pathfinders to force tough choices for my opponents. I usually deploy my army list centrally and infiltrate the Pathfinders deep and to the flanks, wherever they can get the best field of fire. They're solid for this - good range, good cover save, the AP1 potential can scare footsloggers, and so on. Left ignored, they earn their points, especially if there's a fat monstrous creature around to target. If addressed, they make my enemy waste shots or movement time with a CC unit...and, since Pathfinders ignore difficult terrain completely and can fleet, they're pretty good at staying out of the way of assaulters with woods or buildings at their back.

A plus with this tactic against Khornate or BT armies (with a good shooting roll) - you can force your opponent to take the Pathfinder bait, at least for a turn or two.

[LordLink]

yeah aren't black templar similar to khorne? don't they have something that forces them to go for the nearest enemy? fleeting rangers can have a whole lot of fun with that.

[hsin_dragon]

Yes, BT basically fleet towards the nearest enemy when they pass a morale test. If they reach an enemy squad this way they count as having charged that squad.

[Battle-Brother Wags]

Originally Posted by hsin_dragon

If they reach an enemy squad this way they count as having charged that squad.

Are you sure about that? They are locked into close combat, assuredly, but count as having charged? As in gaining the plus one attack bonus? I don't have the BT codex on me, but my buddy that plays BT has never taken an extra attack when he righteous zeals into one of my squads and he is very good about rules . . . especially those rules that would benefit himself such as that one . . .