Math hammer: Harlies Vs. Shrikes wing

[tarzen]

This is a simple UNIT vs UNIT comparison. NOT a point vs point comparison. That may follow, who knows.

Assume 10 harlies, one upgraded to shadow seer, and harlies with harlies kiss.

Harlies vs T6 fex:
Harlies charge fex (since they have a much longer CR). 40 attacks, 6.4 rends, dead fex.
harlies win

Shrikes wing with 9 mate-42 attacks, 1 rend, 25 hits, 11 wounds, dead fex
shrike wins

Fex shooting harlies with 2tl devs-9 hits, 8 wounds, 6 dead harlies (based on the notion that if the harlies were within 18 inches they would have charged, and if further, they would move in. This would mean the fex could move back to outside of 18", or move up within 1", depending on how close they were. Mind you, they would need to be 12+ away if he wanted to move back safely, anything less then that and he would move forward). Assault, harlies wing 12 times, 2 rends, 6 hits, 1 wound, save. Fex hits once, wounds, kills a harlie, leaving 3 left. 3 harlies swing, 1 rend, 5 hits, 1 wound-perhaps dead fex (if he doesn't have Rchitin). Otherwise fex kills another harlie. Next round, last two harlies kill fex.
harlies win but seriously crippled

fex shooting shrike-8 wounds, 2 dead wings. Charges, 14 hits+1 rend from shrike+3 hits from shrike, 5 more wounds-dead fex
shrike wins


harlies vs t7 fex
harlies charge-kill fex
harlies wins

Shrike charge-kill fex
shrike wins

fex charges harlies-shoots, killing 6, takes 2 rends, kills 1 harlie. 3 harlies left, they put 1 more rend on him, he kills another, they put another rend on him, he kills another, last harlie rends him, he dies-1 harlie left
harlies win but are seriously crippled

fex vs shrike-7 wings and shrike left.
shrike wins

harlies vs t8 WL
Harlies charge-dead wraithlord
harlies win

Shrike charges, shrike puts on 1 rend. WL kills one wing (or has a 84% chance to kill shrike). If he kills shrike, he will kill 5 more marines before game ends. If he kills marines, shrike will kill him in 3 more turns if not sooner since he can reroll an attack, increasing his chances of a rend by 16% a turn.
shrike loses most always, but unit only crippled

Wraithlord with BL and starcannon vs harlies-2 flamers into harlies, average of 5 hits each, 10 total hits, 7 wounds, 5 dead harlies. Charge in, harlies put 3 wounds on him. He kills 1 more harlie. 4 remaining harlies rend him killing him.
harlies crippled, but win

Wraithlord charges shrike- 2 flamers would kill 2 marines. SC and BL would kill 2. Charge in, shrike puts on a wound. WL kills shrike ( or see above). Kills 5 more marines. 4 marines left.
shrike loses most always, but unit only crippled

harlies vs marines
harlies charge-6.7 rends, 20 hits, 10 wounds, 3.3 dead marines-all dead
harlies win

Shrikes wing charges-1 rend and 2 dead marines from shrike. marines go simul with wing. marines swing 7 times, hit 3.5 wound 1.8, killing a wing. 36 wing attacks, 18 hit, 12 wound, way dead marines.
shrike wins

Marines shoot harlies-see above about range-20 shots, 13 hits, 9 wounds, 6 dead harlies. 4 harlies charge, 3 rends, 8 hits, 4 wounds, kills another marine. 6 marines swing back, hit 3 times, wound 2 times, kill 1.3 harlies. 3 harlies kill 1.5 marines with rends, 4.5 hits, 2 wounds, kills 1 marine. 3.5 marines swing, hit 1.75 times, wound 1.2, kill one harlie. 2 harlies rend a marine, and hit 3 times, wound once, he saves. 2.5 marines swing, hit, and kill another harlie (from the .3 earlier). 1 harlie rends another marine, and hits once, not wounding. 1.5 marine swings, miss. harlie swings, 2 hits, 1 wound, save.marines swing, hit, kills harlie. 1 marine left.
harlies lose

Marines shoot shrike-13 hits, 7 wounds, 2 dead wings. Shrike charge-shrike kills 3, marines kill 2 more of wing (that go simul). 14 wing hits, 7 wounds, all dead marines.
shrike wins

harlies vs 32 Hormies:
Harlies charge-kill 6.7 with rends, 20 hits, 13 wounds, 18 total dead hormies. 14 hormies swing 28 times, hit 14, wound 7, 5 dead harlies. 5 harlies rend 2.5 more, 7.5 hits, 4 wounds, 6 total dead hormies. 8 hormies swing back, 8 hits, 4 wounds, 2 dead harlies. 3 harlies rend 1.5, hit 4.5, wound 2.5, kill 3 total hormies. 5 hormies hit 5 times, woudn 2.5, kill 2 harlies. Last harlie swings, rends one. 4 hormies hit 4 times, wound 2, kill last harlie.
harlie's lose

Shrike charges- kills 3. 29 hormies go simul (29 hits, 10 wounds, 3 dead wings), wings hit 18 times, 17 total dead hormies. shrike kills another 3. 12 hormies hit 12 times, wound 4, kill another marine. 6 wings hit 9 times, kill 7 more. shrike kills 3 more. 2 hormies kill a marine. 5 wings kill last two hormies.
Shrike wins

Hormies charge harlies-harlies rend 5, hit 14, wound 7, kill 6-total 11 dead hormies. 21 hormies hit 32 times, wound 16 time, kill 10 harlies
harlies lose

Hormies charge shrike-shrike kills 3. 29 hormies hit 44 times, 15 wounds, 5 dead wings. wings go simul, 14 hits, 11 wounds, total 14 dead hormies. shrike kills 3 more, 15 hormies hit 15 times, wound 5, kill 2 wings. 4 wings hit 6 times, wound 5 times, kill 8 total. shrike kills 3 more, 2 wings hit 3 times, kill 2. 7 hormies hit 7 times, wound 3, kill one more wing. shrike kills last 2
shrike wins, but is cripple

More to come...need to go buy cookies from the girl scouts first=)

[Acth]

harlies vs 32 Hormies:
Harlies charge-kill 6.7 with rends, 20 hits, 13 wounds, 18 total dead hormies. 14 hormies swing 28 times, hit 14, wound 7, 5 dead harlies. 5 harlies rend 2.5 more, 7.5 hits, 4 wounds, 6 total dead hormies. 8 hormies swing back, 8 hits, 4 wounds, 2 dead harlies. 3 harlies rend 1.5, hit 4.5, wound 2.5, kill 3 total hormies. 5 hormies hit 5 times, woudn 2.5, kill 2 harlies.
Last harlie swings, rends one. 4 hormies hit 4 times, wound 2, kill last harlie. harlie's lose

Don't forget that after the Harlie's 18 kills there will likely be few hormies in BtB for a counter attack.

[tarzen]

Don't forget that after the Harlie's 18 kills there will likely be few hormies in BtB for a counter attack.

Don't forget hormies have a 3" attack range.

[xinsanityx]

This is a simple UNIT vs UNIT comparison. NOT a point vs point comparison. That may follow, who knows.

Assume 10 harlies, one upgraded to shadow seer, and harlies with harlies kiss.

Harlies vs T6 fex:
Harlies charge fex (since they have a much longer CR). 40 attacks, 6.4 rends, dead fex.harlies win

Shrikes wing with 9 mate-42 attacks, 1 rend, 25 hits, 11 wounds, dead fexshrike wins

Fex shooting harlies with 2tl devs-9 hits, 8 wounds, 6 dead harlies (based on the notion that if the harlies were within 18 inches they would have charged, and if further, they would move in. This would mean the fex could move back to outside of 18", or move up within 1", depending on how close they were. Mind you, they would need to be 12+ away if he wanted to move back safely, anything less then that and he would move forward). Assault, harlies wing 12 times, 2 rends, 6 hits, 1 wound, save. Fex hits once, wounds, kills a harlie, leaving 3 left. 3 harlies swing, 1 rend, 5 hits, 1 wound-perhaps dead fex (if he doesn't have Rchitin). Otherwise fex kills another harlie. Next round, last two harlies kill fex. harlies win but seriously crippled

fex shooting shrike-8 wounds, 2 dead wings. Charges, 14 hits+1 rend from shrike+3 hits from shrike, 5 more wounds-dead fexshrike wins


harlies vs t7 fex
harlies charge-kill fexharlies wins

Shrike charge-kill fexshrike wins

fex charges harlies-shoots, killing 6, takes 2 rends, kills 1 harlie. 3 harlies left, they put 1 more rend on him, he kills another, they put another rend on him, he kills another, last harlie rends him, he dies-1 harlie leftharlies win but are seriously crippled

fex vs shrike-7 wings and shrike left.shrike wins

harlies vs t8 WL
Harlies charge-dead wraithlordharlies win

Shrike charges, shrike puts on 1 rend. WL kills one wing (or has a 84% chance to kill shrike). If he kills shrike, he will kill 5 more marines before game ends. If he kills marines, shrike will kill him in 3 more turns if not sooner since he can reroll an attack, increasing his chances of a rend by 16% a turn.shrike loses most always, but unit only crippled

Wraithlord with BL and starcannon vs harlies-2 flamers into harlies, average of 5 hits each, 10 total hits, 7 wounds, 5 dead harlies. Charge in, harlies put 3 wounds on him. He kills 1 more harlie. 4 remaining harlies rend him killing him. harlies crippled, but win

Wraithlord charges shrike- 2 flamers would kill 2 marines. SC and BL would kill 2. Charge in, shrike puts on a wound. WL kills shrike ( or see above). Kills 5 more marines. 4 marines left.
shrike loses most always, but unit only crippled

harlies vs marines
harlies charge-6.7 rends, 20 hits, 10 wounds, 3.3 dead marines-all dead harlies win

Shrikes wing charges-1 rend and 2 dead marines from shrike. marines go simul with wing. marines swing 7 times, hit 3.5 wound 1.8, killing a wing. 36 wing attacks, 18 hit, 12 wound, way dead marines. shrike wins

Marines shoot harlies-see above about range-20 shots, 13 hits, 9 wounds, 6 dead harlies. 4 harlies charge, 3 rends, 8 hits, 4 wounds, kills another marine. 6 marines swing back, hit 3 times, wound 2 times, kill 1.3 harlies. 3 harlies kill 1.5 marines with rends, 4.5 hits, 2 wounds, kills 1 marine. 3.5 marines swing, hit 1.75 times, wound 1.2, kill one harlie. 2 harlies rend a marine, and hit 3 times, wound once, he saves. 2.5 marines swing, hit, and kill another harlie (from the .3 earlier). 1 harlie rends another marine, and hits once, not wounding. 1.5 marine swings, miss. harlie swings, 2 hits, 1 wound, save.marines swing, hit, kills harlie. 1 marine left. harlies lose

Marines shoot shrike-13 hits, 7 wounds, 2 dead wings. Shrike charge-shrike kills 3, marines kill 2 more of wing (that go simul). 14 wing hits, 7 wounds, all dead marines.shrike wins

harlies vs 32 Hormies:
Harlies charge-kill 6.7 with rends, 20 hits, 13 wounds, 18 total dead hormies. 14 hormies swing 28 times, hit 14, wound 7, 5 dead harlies. 5 harlies rend 2.5 more, 7.5 hits, 4 wounds, 6 total dead hormies. 8 hormies swing back, 8 hits, 4 wounds, 2 dead harlies. 3 harlies rend 1.5, hit 4.5, wound 2.5, kill 3 total hormies. 5 hormies hit 5 times, woudn 2.5, kill 2 harlies.
Last harlie swings, rends one. 4 hormies hit 4 times, wound 2, kill last harlie. harlie's lose

Shrike charges- kills 3. 29 hormies go simul (29 hits, 10 wounds, 3 dead wings), wings hit 18 times, 17 total dead hormies. shrike kills another 3. 12 hormies hit 12 times, wound 4, kill another marine. 6 wings hit 9 times, kill 7 more. shrike kills 3 more. 2 hormies kill a marine. 5 wings kill last two hormies.hormies lose

Hormies charge harlies-harlies rend 5, hit 14, wound 7, kill 6-total 11 dead hormies. 21 hormies hit 32 times, wound 16 time, kill 10 harliesharlies lose

Hormies charge shrike-shrike kills 3. 29 hormies hit 44 times, 15 wounds, 5 dead wings. wings go simul, 14 hits, 11 wounds, total 14 dead hormies. shrike kills 3 more, 15 hormies hit 15 times, wound 5, kill 2 wings. 4 wings hit 6 times, wound 5 times, kill 8 total. shrike kills 3 more, 2 wings hit 3 times, kill 2. 7 hormies hit 7 times, wound 3, kill one more wing. shrike kills last 2shrike wins, but is cripple

More to come...need to go buy cookies from the girl scouts first=)

1st, i've never had my harlies shot by a carnifex nor have i ever been charged by anything with a 6 inch move and assault range, i am very very careful with them, as anyone using harlies should be, so you showing the harlies getting shot and charged by a carnifex is ridiculous. Why would anyone have the harlies out in the open so close to a gunfex and not behind another monstrous creature like your own wraithlords or behind some lvl 3 terrain? The only way i'm putting my harlies that close to a gunfex is if he can't see them at all, otherwise i'm not there. If a carnifex gets shots off at harlies or charges them thats the fault of the eldar player, has nothing to do with the harlies as a unit. And lets say by some miracle a carnifex does charge the harlequins, why wouldn't the harlequins withdraw after the close combat phase was over? They wouldn't go another round against the carnifex without withdrawing?

2nd, your example with the wraithlord, same as with the carnifex. You have the wraithlord getting close enough to the harlies to use his flamers?!? who would ever let that happen? Thats just a ridiculous situation. You also seem to think the wraithlord has 4 wounds, as you say the harlies put 3 wounds on him, then the next round they put another one on him. And again if some how miraculously a wraithlord charged the harlies why wouldn't they withdraw after round 1?

3rd, in your example with the marines, my harlies have never ever been shot by marines, i will not move them out into the open if them getting shot is even a possibility, i'll keep them in my deployment zone, or hide, behind terrain or my own monstrous creatures, until you come into assault range, and if you never do, oh well, you still haven't killed my harlies. The only times marines scare harlies is if they're in a transport, and even then they can still be hidden behind terrain, or monstrous creatures, or the transport can be shot. Very, very unlikely the harlies will get shot by bolters, unless the eldar player does not know what they're doing. Once again why aren't the harlequins withdrawing?

4th, in your hormagaunt example, why are the hormaguants getting all those attacks back? after the harlies kill 18 hormagaunts, the hormagaunts would be lucky to have ANYONE left in b2b. Even with their 3 inch reach, . And then in ur 2nd example where the hormies charge the harlies, i've played tyranids with hormagaunts many times, and have never had my harlies charged by them. And in the event that that happend, thats the fault of the eldar player, not the fault of the unit. Why don't you do the math with a unit of blood angels terminators that have furious assault (with lightning claws) getting the charge off on shrikes wing?

And then lastly, you don't put any numbers up showing what happens when shrike and the harlies go head to head. Nor are there any numbers up showing what happens when both squads goes up against a squad of terminators armed with lightning claws? Or going against a demon prince with a manreaper? Or going up against a squad of genestealers?

Harlequins are surperior to shrikes wing against all the squads i just listed.

edit: this is my last post on this issue, as just about no one agrees with you tarzen, not only is this argument ridiculous as you're not including points, which is asinine. And even though points are not included, the harlies are at least the equals of shrike's wing, and imo are better, seeing as how head to head shrikes wing loses.

[tarzen]

insanity, I love your logic mate. I really do. So, your harlies that have an 18" charge range have never been assaulted by hormies that have a 24" assault range. Gee, I guess you're right, MY thinking must be off.

If I stay at 19" you apparently don't move any close no matter the unit I have, since it will wreck your little precious unit. So, without firing a shot, I have stopped 250pts, without a fight. So, 114pt fex beats your precious will being able to shoot at any other unit in range, thus doing double duty. Same with tact squads or even hormies (see above comment).

Please, if you can't even follow along, go away.

If you want full stats, ld tests for your little harlies after getting gunned (which will happen or they wont move all game) then I can do that.

If you insist that they wont ever get shot, you are, well, forum rules prohibit such things. Let's just say that you are fooling yourself, or you play idiots, or probably both.

If you want to discuss VP denial, you are saying that you hide in yout deployment zone to avoid bolter fire. Fine, 150pts vs 250pts. That gives me a 2 landspeeders, 2 scoring units, and 8 shots a turn for free (which will kill your harlies hiding in the back) besides letting my marines kill anything else in range and ignoring your little ones.

You don't have a crutch to stand on. You want me to crunch out your pull out and charge back in?

And lets say by some miracle a carnifex does charge the harlequins, why wouldn't the harlequins withdraw after the close combat phase was over? They wouldn't go another round against the carnifex without withdrawing?

3 harlies fall back 3d6, charge (if they are in range, which is probable, but not guaranteed). 2 rends, killing non Rchitin fex. If he is rchitined, then he again kills another harlie. Anyway you figure it, 7 dead does not bode well for a 250pt unit vs a 114pt unit. Nor does it compare to what shrike can do (despite your spam to the contrary).


EDIT: Comments removed. Such a snide and supercilious attitude does little for your "adult" image. ~DavidVC04

So, when time permits, I'll run those numbers for you as well.

[[Black] Katalyst]

Nice work, but its exremely biased toawrds Skrike. I understand its based on model count, but it seems a bit unrealistic.

Shrike and 9x Wing is 634 points and 10x Harliquins with a Shadowseer is 250 points.

Some of your math is also off...

Harli's charge Marines
40 attacks
6.7 rend
22.3 hits(3+)
11.15 wounds(4+) not 10

Harli's charge Hormagaunts
40 attacks
6.7 rend
22.3 hits(3+)
18.5 wounds(2+) not 13

Don't forget hormies have a 3" attack range.

The correct math will leave 6.8 Hormagaunts left. I'm a Tyranid player and I use a lot of Hormagaunts. 9/10 times they are placed as far apart as possible to avoid blast weapons so its nearly impossible to have all in cc, even with their 3" range, when they are assaulted. With roughly 25 models being removed 2" away from BtB models, its highly unlikely any will be left in cc to attack.

You're not taking into account Harli's have Furious Charge and where is all the Hit and Run disengaing on the opponent's turn?

I agree with all the points made my xinsanityx. This mathhammer is severely biased and IMO should not be taken into account when determining who is better.

[tarzen]

Nice work, but its exremely biased toawrds Skrike. I understand its based on model count, but it seems a bit unrealistic.

Shrike and 9x Wing is 634 points and 10x Harliquins with a Shadowseer is 250 points.

agreed, as stated, unit by unit. Point by point we could run 3 tornadoes vs the harlies against any unit. Including the harlies. But wanted to do similar units first.

Some of your math is also off...

Harli's charge Hormagaunts
40 attacks
6.7 rend
22.3 hits(3+)
18.5 wounds(2+) not 13

um, hormies are t3. harlies are s4 on charge, wound on 3+, 4+ there after. So 13 wound be 12.8 rounded up.

The correct math will leave 6.8 Hormagaunts left. I'm a Tyranid player and I use a lot of Hormagaunts. 9/10 times they are placed as far apart as possible to avoid blast weapons so its nearly impossible to have all in cc, even with their 3" range, when they are assaulted. With roughly 25 models being removed 2" away from BtB models, its highly unlikely any will be left in cc to attack.

see and with eldar they have SOMETIMES 1 largeblast weapon. Now, that said, any tactical player can usually move his units into such a position as to only assault a piece of the unit you are trying to cull. The numbers don't take that into account. Likewise, shrike and one marine clipping the edge of the spread out harlies (while the marines are all packed together) could easily mean a win for the marines.

You're not taking into account Harli's have Furious Charge and where is all the Hit and Run disengaing on the opponent's turn?

nope, but as stated, could certainly do that.

I agree with all the points made my xinsanityx. This mathhammer is severely biased and IMO should not be taken into account when determining who is better.

Biased in some ways, perhaps. When time permits, I'll crunch out the rest of the math. But the continued notion that harlies will never be assaulted or shot is simply ridiculous, plain and simple...

[[Black] Katalyst]

um, hormies are t3. harlies are s4 on charge, wound on 3+, 4+ there after. So 13 wound be 12.8 rounded up.

My fault, some odd notion lead me to believe they were S4 base.

Now, that said, any tactical player can usually move his units into such a position as to only assault a piece of the unit you are trying to cull. The numbers don't take that into account. Likewise, shrike and one marine clipping the edge of the spread out harlies (while the marines are all packed together) could easily mean a win for the marines.

This is true, but likewise for both units.

nope, but as stated, could certainly do that.

It would be appreciated to see the numbers. The Harliquins would certainly kill the units they assault quicker and lead to less wounds suffered on their part.

But the continued notion that harlies will never be assaulted or shot is simply ridiculous, plain and simple...

Thats not a point you need to force upon me. I know first hand they can be shot and bad fleet rolls can leave them in sore positions.

The thought of Harliquins never being assaulted or shot at is rediculous. It is difficult to assault them and shoot them, but its not impossible.

[tarzen]

Crunching more numbers

Harlies vs 10 Termies with lightning claws
harlies charge, standard 6.7 rends, 20 hits. 10 wounds, 2 dead+4 dead from rends. 12 swings back, 6 hits, 5 wounds, 3 dead harlies. 7 harlies inflict another 3.5 rends, 11 hits, 4 wounds, kill 2 more termies. 2 temies hit 2 times, wound 2 times, kill 1 harlie. Harlies inflict 3 rends which would kill last termi, leaving 6 harlies, but now they are stuck in open for opponents turn after 2.5 rounds.
Harlies win

shrike charges, 1 rend 3 wounds, 3 dead termies. 7 simul-swing, 7 hits, 5 wounds, 5 dead wings. 9 wings hit 14 times, wound 10 times. 7 more dead termies. Leaving shrike and 4 wings, but done all in one round, and now stuck in open for ops turn.
shrike wins

Termies charge harlies- Harlies go first, 5 rends, 15 hits, 5 wounds, total of 4 dead termies. 6 termies hit 9 times, wound 8 times, kills 5 harlies. (termies win combat). Harlies pull out, and if they make it back in, get 3 rends, 10 hits, 5 wounds, kills 3 more termies. 3 termies hit 3 times, wound 3 times, kill 2 more harlies (harlies win this round). 3 harlies rend 2 times, hit 4 times, wound 1, killing 2 more termies. termi hits once, wounds, kills another harli. Harlies then kill termi after 2.5 turns. 2 harlies left out in open for ops turn.
harlies win, but severly crippled

Termis charge shrike- shrike kills 2+ termies. 8 termies hit 12 times, wound 9 times killing wing. Wing simul swings, hits 14 times wounds 10, kills 7 more. Last termie gets pulped by shrike. Done in one turn, but shrike left out in open for ops turn
Shrike wins, but severly crippled

harlies vs 12 GS without EC
Harlies charge, kill 7 with rends, hit another 13 times, wound another 6. Kill 4 more. 1 GS swings, hits once, wounds, kills a harlie. Simul attack, genestealer kills another harli, and then dies horribly. 8 harlies left
Harlies win

Shrike charges GS, GS rend 2 times, hit 10, wound 5, kill 4 wing. Shrike rends 1, kills 2 more. 5 wings hit 10 times, wound 7, kill them leaving 3 left. GS swing, 1 rend, 3 hits, 2 wounds, 2 more dead wings. Shrike kills 3 more. Shrike and 3 wing left
Shrike wins but crippled

GS charge harlies-simul attacks. GS rend 6, hit 18 times, 12 wounds, killing all harlies. Harlies swing back, 5 rends, 10 hits, 3 wounds, killing 2 GS. 5 GS remaining
harlies lose

GS charge shrike, 6 rends, 9 wounds, all of shrikes wing dead. Shrike kills 3. Next turn shrike is killed. 9 GS remaining
shrike loses

harlies vs 12 GS with EC
Harlies charge, kill 7 with rends, hit another 13 times, wound another 6. Kill 3 more. 2 GS swings, hits 2 times, wounds, kills a harlie. Simul attack, genestealers kills another harli, and then dies horribly. 8 harlies left
Harlies win

Shrike charges GS, GS rend 2 times, hit 10, wound 5, kill 4 wing. Shrike rends 1, kills 2 more. 5 wings hit 10 times, wound 7, kill them leaving 3 left. GS swing, 1 rend, 3 hits, 2 wounds, 2 more dead wings. Shrike kills 3 more. Shrike and 3 wing left
Shrike wins but crippled

GS charge harlies-simul attacks. GS rend 6, hit 18 times, 12 wounds, killing all harlies. Harlies swing back, 5 rends, 10 hits, 3 wounds, killing 2 GS. 5 GS remaining
harlies lose

GS charge shrike, 6 rends, 9 wounds, all of shrikes wing dead. Shrike kills 3. Next turn shrike is killed. 9 GS remaining
shrike loses

edit-----------------------------

harlies vs Banshees
Harlies charge, banshees hit 10 times, wound 5, kill 4. 6 harlies swing, rend 4, hit 12, wound 8, kill 4 more. harlies rend 2 more. 6 Harlies left in open on ops turn. lasted 1.5 turns
Harlies win

Shrike charges-banshees hit 10 times, wound 3 times, killing 3 wing. shrike kills 4, wing kills rest. 5 wing and shrike left. lasted .5 turns.
shrike wins

Banshees charge harlies. Banshees hit 15 times, wound 8, kill 5. 5 harlies rend 2, hit 13 times, wound 7 times, killing 6 total. 5 harlies swing, killing rest, leaving 5 harlies out in open on ops turn. Lasts 1.5 rounds
harlies win

Banshees shoot, hit 7 times, wound 4, killing 3. charge, killing 5 more. 2 harlies return attacks, rending one, and killing another. harlies shouldn't disengage or banshees will kill. Harlies rend one, kill another. Banshees hit 6 times, wound 3, killing harlies. 6 banshees left after 1 turn.
harlies lose

Banshees charge shrike-hit 15 times, wound 5, 5 dead wings. shrike kills 3, wings swing, hit 8 times, wound 6, kill 6. banshee hits once, fails to wound, dies to shrike. Shrike and 4 wings left after 1 turn
shrike wins

Banshees shoot-hit 7 wound 3, kill 1. Charge, killing 5 more. shrike kills 3, 3 wings hit 5 times, wound 4, killing them, leaving 3 banshees. simul shrike kills all three, they kill 1 marine. shrike and 2 wings left
shrike wins but severly crippled

reedit---------------------
harlies vs BA termies with lightning claws
harlies charge, 6.7 rends, 20 hits, 10 wounds, 7 dead termies. 6 swings back, 3 hits, 2 dead harlies. Harlies kill termies
harlies win

shrike charges, 1 rend 3 wounds, 3 dead termies. 7 simul-swing, 7 hits, 5 wounds, 5 dead wings. 9 wings hit 14 times, wound 10 times. 7 more dead termies. Leaving shrike and 4 wings, but done all in one round, and now stuck in open for ops turn.
shrike wins

BA Termies charge harlies- Harlies go first, 5 rends, 15 hits, 5 wounds, total of 4 dead termies. 6 termies hit 9 times, wound 9 times, kills 6 harlies. (termies win combat). Harlies pull out, and if they make it back in, get 3 rends, 8 hits, 4 wounds, kills 3 more termies. 3 termies hit 3 times, wound 3 times, kill 2 more harlies (harlies win this round). 2 harlies rend 1 time, hit 3 times, wound 1, killing 2 more termies. termi hits once, wounds, kills another harli. Harlie then kill termi after 2.5 turns. 1 harlie left out in open for ops turn.
harlies win, but severly crippled

BA Termis charge shrike- shrike kills 2+ termies. 10 termies hit 15 times, wound 10 times killing wing. Shrike kills 2 more termies, 6 termies kill shrike
shrike loses

------------
Perhaps more stats to come, any units/situations you want run?

[Rork]

Perhaps more stats to come, any units/situations you want run?

I'm hoping people can work it out for themselves. There isn't really a lot of point posting endless examples of how unit y should statistically beat unit x (especially as it is the average case).