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Hey guys, first post - be gentle.
So I've had this idea of an apocalyptic Empire doomsday cult kicking around for awhile now, and thought I'd get some opinions on how to make if not powerful, then at least viable in friendly games. I'm thinking a mad nobleman who's convinced that mankind's dabbling in magic and technology are bringing about the end-times, whatever retainers he's managed to persuade to his cause, heretical warrior-priests and vast legions of flagellants roaming the length and breadth of the Empire preparing for the eschaton. Modeling should be fun, with lots of unwashed, crazed troops, banners with slogans scrawled all over them, and a general ramshackle appearance (state troops would probably be made using an assortment of militia pieces, for example).
So I guess my questions are twofold - has anyone played a similar army, and what would be the best way to go re: composition?
Theme's important, so I'd rather not use any blackpowder weapons or wizards, and would prefer to emphasise flagellants and warrior priests. The list I knocked together this morning went something like this (for 2000 points):
Arch lector - war altar, heavy armour, shield, shield of the gorgon, von horstmann's speculum
warrior priest - heavy armour, two hammers, sigil of Sigmar
captain - imperial pegasus, lance, full plate, shield, sword of battle
captain - battle standard, full plate, sword of sigismund
6 knights - musician, standard, lances
6 knights - musician, standard, lances
25 flagellants - prophet
24 greatswords - full command
-10 halberds, shields
25 flagellants - prophet
10 flagellants - prophet
Strategy would be pretty simple - the two big flagellant units and the greatswords are tarpits, while the detachments, small flagellant unit, knights and war altar try to countercharge flanks. The pegasus rider hunts war machines, skirmshers, light missile troops, fast cav, ethereals, lone mages, etc; and the BSB goes with the greatswords (striking first to offset losses to the rest of the unit). The arch lector is pretty self-explanatory. I' not really sure what to do with the warrior-priest, who's mainly there for theme - maybe stick him on a horse to roll with the knights, or add him to a flagellant unit to give them some punch - at the moment he's definitely the week link, and I'm not too sure what to give him (but I'd rather keep him if possible). I realise that countercharge cavalry units generally don't need banners, but given that my flagellants can't take them I figure they'd be useful here.
As I said, theme's important, but if you can give some advice on how to make that theme work it'd be appreciated.
Last edited by Perdidas; January 28th, 2008 at 05:37.
i think it sounds pretty cool, I would look to mix some of the militia boxes with the chaos barbarian guys.
"Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're in favor of free speech, then you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you're not in favor of free speech."
youve been legal pwned
I'm not an Empire player, but:
While there's plenty of debate about it with regards to the Warrior Priest's Unbreakable prayer, characters that are not unbreakable cannot join an unbreakable unit (AFAIK). So you can't run your Priest with the Flagellants.
A Priest is DEFINITELY not a weak link though. Stick him with a unit of Knights. He'll get the extra save from the horse, and importantly he'll let your Knights reroll hits on the charge, a great remedy for rubber lance syndrome. AND he's giving you Prayers, and a dispel die. He's definitely not a weak link.
The main thing I notice about this list is that you've got 3 mobile units (Knights and Captasus) and no shooting. An army that's able to avoid your bulk and shoot you (or just an army with a fair bit of shooting that feels no need to come at you) could do a fair bit of damage. A prime example would be Wood Elves. Lots of squishy, unarmoured T3 flagellants, and only a couple of knights units to deter them. Of course, I'm a relative noob, so wait for advice from a more experienced campaigner before you take anything I say as gospel
Difficult army you have there my fellow crazed general .
I admire your fluff wise aproach but I think this will be a hard armylist to play and win.
The only unit who can defeat other army's elite are your GS's with detachments. The knight are nice support but will never be able to crush a fully ranked unit or y most be really lucky. Even a fully ranked unit of men @ arms can withstand the charge of your knights.
Flagelants are great, but not that good in crushing opposing enemys. Ofcourse they will always hold but they will not win combat and when the enemy has a character in the opposing unit he will grind your flagelants. So yea to use flagelants to hold an enemy at bay but not for defeating him. And with move 4 flagelants aren't that hard to outmanouver.
I would recommend to drop 1 unit flag, and make 2x 20 + prophets. This should give you enough points to add some shooting or some fully ranked statetroops.
Moving on to the charaters, I assume that one captain will join the GS and the war. priest??? get him a horse . Iam not really fond of a captasus, he's really not that good... I would rather use the points on more troops or a wizard with a scroll.
I think this should work and still be fluffwise acceptable .
My main problem with this is Empire is slow (compared to most armies) and your flaggies are expensive and unprotected. You could lose half your army before you get into combat against the right amount of shooting or magic. If the WALTER gets stuck in a cheap, expendible unit most of the game (think tons of night goblins on the flank) then he can be made useless. Empire has a hard time baiting and fleeing since their fast cav is special (and has black powder)
I agree with most of Buckero0's suggestions.
Warrior priests are a much better investment than Captains. Especially on horses. Dispell dice, plus Bound spells, plus adding hatred to Unit = Ninjatastic (good)
Give your knights either Banner of Arcane Warding or add the second priest to them with the Sigil of Sigmar. Also one good stone thrower shoot can equal 3 dead Knights. I field them 10-15 Strong. Expensive I know, but the out number and possible rank bonus, not to mention better survivability.
Flagellants are cool. But easily avoided, not to be depended on to win a fight, but good at holding ground. Would suggest reinvestment of points towards State Troops with detachments (it being the core of the Empire tactical doctrine and the s*x [yet again meaning good]).
I have some other minor magic / equipment lay suggestions but don't want to re-write your army, as it is your army. Please keep in mind my opinion is only suggestion.
*also Priest in unit of knights can equal extra D6 st4 wounds, so be a man and use Knight only ever to flank or rear charge, the front is for massive State troop units.
I would love to see pictures of your finished army, sounds like a cool idea and with the new s*xy Empire models, will look the bomb.
Anyways, back on the topic at hand, I'd ask what Greatswords are doing in a Doomsayers list. Also, I'd say you NEED more units, the ones you have are way too big. I agree with Deltaguard that State Troops mixed with Chaos marauders would look extra cool. I know Hordes of Chaos are very high on the "To redesign" list, so if you want to wait and see what the new figures look like.