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    Struggling with Wood Elves

    Hi All I have been playing WHFB for 15+ years but over the past couple I have been playing Empire (previous orc player) and whilst I can confidantely crush most other opponents I struggle against Wood Elves

    I run

    Kurt Helborg

    Warrior Priest sigil, enchanted sheild, sword might

    lvl2 wizard 1 scroll, icon magus

    BSB Griffon banner

    28 Spear men
    10 Handgunners
    10 handgunners

    8 inner circle knights with warrior priest, & Kurt
    10 Knights of white wulf
    5 out riders

    1 steam tank
    1 helblaster

    total 2250

    any suggestions on tactics or changes to Army lists? whilst I am Happy to run with what I have got, I think it is well rounded.

    Last edited by IGriffin; February 13th, 2009 at 01:04.

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  3. #2
    Sparta! Exarch Thomo's Avatar
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    Hi,

    First off just let me say that I am not an empire player - the army has always intrigued me, but not enough for me to buy large quantities of models. That being said, I do play Wood Elves, and know just how succesful they can be.

    If your Wood Elf opponent runs a list anything like mine (and most other WE lists I have seen) you just won't come close to them unless they want you to. However, if you could provide a sample list of the units that you most commonly face, we may be able to be a bit more specific.

    That being said, the biggest issue I see is that you can't match him at range, and you don't have enough deterrents to stop Glade Riders and other march blocking, harrassing units. The shorter range of your handguns compared to the Glade Guard Longbows, also means that you will have to spend at least a turn without shooting them, while also getting hammered. Crossbows may be a good option here, as are archers.
    As for the hellblaster, I have been on the recieving end of one too often, so I'm not going to say anything.

    The other thing to consider is maybe going a bit stronger in the magic department. WE's aren't an overly offensive magic army, and most lists tend to have only a token mage for defence. Careful targetting with Magic Missiles etc can rip whole unit apart. Lore of Fire is your friend.

    Also, WE's have a lack of serious SCR units, so maybe consider splitting a couple of units of knights and combine charges...dunno.
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon

  4. #3
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IGriffin View Post
    Hi All I have been playing WHFB for 15+ years
    wow, if you don't mind me saying- you're an ancient. Even the oldest of elves should be bowing to your wisdom. So I guess I'll help you too.

    I run

    Kurt Helborg
    not a bad choice, but quite possibly MORE than you need. WE cc isn't quite the best- a tooled captain might be best

    Warrior Priest sigil, enchanted sheild, sword might
    as said- it might be better for you to drop this fine gentleman in favor of a more agressive caster.

    lvl2 wizard 1 scroll, icon magus
    once more, MORE POWER!

    BSB Griffon banner
    really, the WoodElves don't generate much Combat Resolution. Your choice of a BSB is up to you. I typically like using them, but it's not an essential against the little tree sprites.

    28 Spear men
    this unit is HUGE! I would make it a little smaller, maybe 2 units of 20. The reason is that the elves can usually count on hitting your flank, negating your ranks. I'd stick to smaller, cheaper units who can field more detachments and cover more ground. Swordsmen might also be a good alternative, giving them shields to get a better save and some much needed survivability.
    10 Handgunners
    10 handgunners
    i'd drop these guys in favor of either Longbowmen (s3 can really hurt elves) or crossbowmen (not much different than Hguns against elves, but with better range)

    8 inner circle knights with warrior priest, & Kurt
    split this unit. You should be running 2 units with 5-6 men in each. The WoodElves will have a hard time cracking your heavy armor and 2 units of these guys lets you spread them out and maximize your crunch potential

    10 Knights of white wulf
    drop 'em like a bad habit. Mounted greatweapons are useless, and it's better to just take lances and shields. This goes for ANY empire army, unless you've got some kind of fluff attachment.

    5 out riders
    against the woodelves, these guys are a bullet magnet. You've already got 2 units of cavalry to work the flanks. I would spread these points along the rest of your army.

    1 steam tank
    the STank is pretty slow actually, and there's a good chance that they'll avoid it. However, it's a weapon that they are going to find almost impossible to destroy. It's sort of a gamble- if you can lock them down and bring them to battle, you'll love your tank. Otherwise it's a wasted pile of scrap metal.

    1 helblaster
    the little machinegun from hell. It'll be a target for ALOT of shooting though, so watch out.

    total 2250
    your list is well rounded, but it is very small. You run a lot of characters and alot of heavy weaponry like the Blaster, Stank, and Outriders. I play both Empire and Woodelves. They're always going to try to run from you, and hit your flanks in the last few turns after pumping your full of arrows in the early turns. The nice thing about playing empire is that you can really make a compact force that takes up a lot of space. You don't want to spread out or have a unit going solo, because the elves will just evelope it. It's like throwing stuff at a sheet. If you chuck a football at it, the sheet will just take the blow and wrap around it. But if you hit the sheet with a huge paddle, it'll force the whole thing back and won't get wrapped up. Your empire are like a football right now. You want more units, more detachments, and a compact deployment to make you more like a huge paddle. "Steamrolling" should come to mind when you advance across the board.
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    Hi

    Thanks for the feed back Guys. some good ideas, i will definately split my army up into some smaller units next time, in the vain hope that something will get into close combat before all my army disappears in a hail of arrows. Great analogy with the football and sheet.

    Whilst at our local club no one plays Woodelves so i dont have a regualr opponent, I only run into them at tournaments. Hence the balanced list.

    A majority of my regular gamers are Dwarves or Undead. and a couple high eleves

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    The last game I played against a Wood elf player, I was nearly able to walk entirely over him with a captain on a pegasus with a doomfire ring. Early on he focused on killing my outriders and pistoliers, and was scared enough of my magic missiles and bound spells from my priests that he got hit very hard by the doomfire ring (I hit two whole units of glade riders and a handful of archers) (it will probably only work once, but the pegasus can get you in a very good position to make the one time count).

    I'd say for sure that you should split your army into more targets. The more different things he has to shoot at, the more likely it is that some of them will reach home. Small units of knights are the way to go here (and as reccomended earlier, Knights of the White Wolf just aren't worth it). I'd also say that the BSB just isnt worth the points with the Griffon standard against WE because you're likely to get flanked and lose its benefits entirely, or the unit won't end up in combat at all. I'd take those points and invest them in either more knights or another wizard (or the captain on a pegasus).

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