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Empire 2000 point list
Templar, Holy relic, dawn stone, hammer of judgement-240
General, full plate, shield, talisman of preservation, sword of power-180
Captain, BSB, b.warhorse, full plate, ogre blade-137
Lvl 2, D.scroll warhorse-135
Lvl 2, SOD-145
8 Knights, F.C-224
10 Knights, F.C-270
20 swordsmen, F.C-145
20 greatswords, F.C-230
with this list I have around 30 points left so I was wondering what sort of banner I should put on the greatswords or swordsmen as my general will be my army general as I cant seem to find one that I think will be effective but as you will be much more experienced than me I was hoping for your ideas.
However I would also like to say that I don't want to take handgunners, crossbowmen or archers as I feel that empire shooting is relatively week; but as I am open to suggestions I would be open to an only shooting army.
Thanks for reading this and I would hope to hear praises and improvements.
Thanks again, JD
Way too much spent on charcters, and the wrong ones, at that. Nowhere near enough spent on infantry. I'd say drop one of the fighty lords for a L4 mage, and then drop one of the L2 mages for more swordsmen. And give the bsb a 4+ ward.
I'd probably also cut six knights and take a single unit of twelve. Maybe use those points for a pair of mortars?
Last edited by Marnepup; March 1st, 2012 at 17:13.
This is the kind of list I've spent lots of time thinking about and tweaking. I think I get the gist of your army's plan but it would help to have a quick description of the units' and characters' roles. Remember to take my advice with a grain of salt since I have my own idea of how the army should work.
My first question is: did you take the General simply to get the magic banner on state troops, or is he for extra attack power? If it's the former, I would suggest not bothering with him since there isn't really an awesome combo you could put on your one unit of swords. If it's the latter, I would suggest getting another mounted captain instead for less points who is just as good. In both cases, what I'm thinking about is freeing up space to swap those two lvl. 2 casters (or one of them) for a lvl. 4. In my experience, a knight army needs some strong magic backup or at very least, defence. Most competitive-ish armies at 2000 will have at least a lvl. 2 or 3, which is the sweet spot for Empire to be in charge of the phase. I wrote a quick bit of tactica for this somewhere, but I usually take the mounted wizard in a unit of 7 or 8 knights with enough other characters (1 or 2) to force him to the back rank. Generally, I put him with my bsb and 6 knights in a 4x2 formation (ranks of 5 are fairly non-important for knights this edition). That way he needs no protection unless the unit is decimated anyway.
If you were to go the way of eliminating 2 wizards and the general in lieu of a lvl. 4 caster, that would leave you some extra points to work with. The first thing I'd do is make the swordsmen bigger. They have to be your anvil for this army since your knights can't take big units head on. I would suggest just upward of 40 swordsmen 5 wide to ensure you're always steadfast and can last till support arrives. The greatswords are probably good at their size, any more and you're taking points away from other stuff.
Finally, artillery. 2 cannons is always nice but I would suggest taking at least one mortar. Your biggest threat with this army will be big enemy block units. Being able to drop a 5" template on them is hugely helpful. The engineer may be unnecessary with only 2 cannons (i prefer to split up my cannons anyway so they don't get charged through) but if you had a mortar he could make it deadly accurate. Better yet, take him with a helstorm rocket battery, the bane of chaos warriors in 4+ armour.
I hope this is helpful advice. I don't want to make your army into my army, but with any knight army you need to make sure you have things to handle what your knights can't: a big ol anvil unit for big blocks of troops, some variety in artillery to whittle units down, and strong magic backup. My final advice is to be really careful how you handle your knights, because one bad charge basically takes them out of the game. The right charge, though, can swing the game for you. Good luck!
Honey badger don't care.
Oh, and I forgot to mention: pistoliers are invaluable in a knights list for redirecting and harrassing enemies, usually without upgrades. You can put them directly between your enemy's infantry block and your cav units, forcing them to charge you. You can either flee- making them stumble forward, block their marches, or die heroically to put the enemy in a flankable position.
Honey badger don't care.
Thanks for the reply Jackmoddle,
For the 1st question you asked I decided to take the general to add more firepower to my swordsmen unit in order to allow them to have more attacks and also to bog down units as for some reason a unit that size always does relatively well alongside my knights, also since typing my list i've made changes I have made my knights technically cheaper by putting them in a unit 12 strong with the wizard, BSB and templar, also in dooing this the points i've saved I have used to expand the swordsmen unit (like you suggested) which will hopefully allow me to have a hard hitting unit (my knights) with two units that bog down the enemy. I also have considered strongly about using mortars instead of cannons as I never miss-fire with them and always with my cannons (even with a master engineer) on a new post will be my improved list so I would be grateful if you could go through this and add improvements.
My improved list:
Empire 2000 points
Templar, holy relic, hammer of judgement, dawn stone-240
Lvl 3, van horstmanns, Armour of tarnus, warhorse-255
Captain, BSB, B.warhorse, ogre blade, full plate-138
Lvl 2, dispel scroll-125
12 knights, F.C-316
30 swordsmen, F.C-205 (5*6)
20 halbediers, F.C-120
20 greatswords, F.C-230
In this list I have decided to take a lvl 3 instead of a general also, on this list I have taken the Lvl 3 with the speculum and armour so when I play someone like vampires (who I play most) or ogres (again play them most) I will be able to kill them quicker than they can me. I have also taken a mortar to give me fire power VS vampires etc also I have kept the master engineer to allow me to be more accurate with my cannons and my mortar (obviously not all at the same time). I have also been thinking about taking the steel standard on my knight unit to allow to make charges easier giving my lances more use, and meaning I can make charges each turn and swinging the game in my favour.
I hope you take the time to view this and comment on it again. Thanks.
Honey badger don't care.
Thanks for the reply by the way,
at the moment im going to use the list I made above, but if that doesn't work out then I will consider your opinions. But as my shop/club has shut down this week there isn't an easy way for me to try these lists out.