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Following on from my Handgunners vs X-bows thread, I would like to gauge peoples opinions on the mounted shooty element!
As Pistolliers have now been de-powered and outriders are notoriously difficult to use effectively with the to hit mods for long range and multi shot + move or fire rule, does anyone still use the fast cavalry element?
If so which do you prefer? and how do you use your choices?
I have recently been experimenting with outriders.
I had originally taken a unit as protection for artillery, but with a view to them being flexible enough to get round the table if need be.
The way in which the game panned out they ended up not moving once, and acting purely as a unit of handgunners would have in their place, so handgunners on this occassion would have been a better shout.
In other games i have made them mobile, moving them as march blockers and harrasers.
I found this tactic to be an expensive waste of time, due to the move or fire rule. getting in to position invariably wastes rounds of shooting and with the modifiers to hit, they do not always make a great impact when they are in position.
I am yet to try new rule pistolliers.
Last edited by muppetconstrictor; August 2nd, 2007 at 11:23.
Pistoliers weren't nerfed. So they lost an extra S3 attack in combat, not a big deal. They went down 1 pt too. Oh and the champion w/repeater pistol gained a ranged attack. He now has 4 shots instead of 3.
They still perform the same fast cav. job they did before.
The huge weakness for empire is a lack of maneauverability so pistoliers are essential.
Outriders are handgunners that are easier to kill. The main disadvantage is that they take up a valuable special slot. The only advantage to outriders is that they shoot in 360 degrees, though I really don't think that outweighs their disadvantages.
Besides, I wouldn't take handgunners b/c of the 24" range so I'm definately not going to take outriders either.
Agree 100% with DotR.
Empire lacks manouverability, outriders don't provide that.
rep Dotr. :yes:
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besides the outriders look butt ugly .. like dwarf wannabes who drank too much ale
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Thank you for the comments DotR
I may be incorrect on this point, but i am sure pistoliers used to confere strength 4 when charging in to combat?
If this is the case, they have been de-powered.
Although as you say they have been made 1 point cheaper, and most importantly they have been given the option to take a musician!
Nope, it allowed them to use 2 hand weapons while mounted in the first turn of a combat, so str 3.but i am sure pistoliers used to confere strength 4 when charging in to combat?You're right actually which makes them much better than they were before.and most importantly they have been given the option to take a musician!
Well, with 7th ed. it's obsolete anyways but I do have to contradict.Nope, it allowed them to use 2 hand weapons while mounted in the first turn of a combat, so str 3.
The 'Fusilade'-Rule quite clearly stated that Pistoliers used both Pistols in the first round of CC. And under the entry for Pistols in the 6th ed rulebook it toos a lot of spache to explain that they did grant an attack at strenght 4 (with armour piercing) in the first round of combat.
It ain't easy bein' green... :-)
I voted pistoliers because I love maneuverability of fast cav and the fact that they can dance around you and shoot you with nasty st4 armorpiercing is a great ability. In my opinion, fast cav should rarely be in combat no matter what the unit type (pistoliers, marauders, wolfriders) they should be a harassment unit. The only combat I could see them in, is against other fastcav, warmachine crews and maybe, and I mean maybe, on a rear charge against poor, breakable core units that will have a hard time hurting them back and hopefully in combination with another unit.
Out of curiosity - and not to steal your thread, but which do you think is more effective?
5 pistoliers with champ and repeater pistol and musician (4 shots with BS4, 1 point less)
6 pistoliers with musician only (extra wound)
If you're going to forego the champion I would just take 5. Easier to maneouver and cheaper.5 pistoliers with champ and repeater pistol and musician (4 shots with BS4, 1 point less)
6 pistoliers with musician only (extra wound)
I like the champion b/c he can hit things on a stand and shoot or against skirmishers and the like. Whereas if you double tap to a 6+ you might as well be firing 1 shot anyway.
It keeps them compact and its fun. You'll have more firepower this way and if they're targetted they're likely to be wiped out anyway.
i've got a friend who runs them 6 strong. I've never seen him have trouble with manuevering (free reforms and all) I figured, I would rather have a little better chance hitting something ~ and when I figured out that the points with a champ and multirevolver was a point or 2 cheaper I thought that was a lot better. He still says he would prefer to have the wounds, but I agree with you, fast cav die pretty easy (even to bow shots) so the extra wound won't do me much good. I guess I was just trying to settle a competative argument.