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  1. #1
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    Tercio Empire List?

    Hey all new to Fantasy here.

    Have been collecting a Skaven army and I must say 40k has made me soft as I've been stomped pretty bad, but am getting better.

    Anyway I put the skaven aside in favour of an Empire army for now and I was thinking If I could play it like this.

    I'm a military history buff, specifically the age of Pike and Shot which I feel fits into FB quite well. I'm thinking of an Empire army modelled on the Spanish and Holy Roman Empire armies of the time, which used huge blocks of pikemen and handgunners called tercios.

    Will the following be at all competetive or merely be an exercise in fluff? I haven't included anything specific with characters/banners etc. but simply the general ideas of the army.

    3x Spearman (Pikemen) with detachments of Handgunners each. I was thinking of halberd's to represent Pikemen but people generally agree that they are not as effective gaming wise. What do you think?

    2 x Swordsman with detachments of Handgunners.

    2x Great Cannon and one Hellblaster

    2x Pistoliers (Actual historical units)

    Ok so basically its a gunline but with a theme (Excuse?) in mind. Is it feasible to have that many handgunner units or is it simply too big and unwieldy.

    Comments and suggestions welcome.

    cheers


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  3. #2
    Banned ArchonFarseerGuy's Avatar
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    458 (x8)

    Halberds as Detachments are fine imo. As a R&F unit- not so great.

    If you want something even closer to Tercios, then you may want to hire a few DoW units. There's one out there that is literal pikemen with XBowmen at the front rank.

    Your force looks competitive enough, and if anyone calls that a gunline, slap them around the cheek with a large fish. In all seriousness, a gunline would have far more shooting units than that. I could play against it without any worries.

    The only real suggestion I can think of gamingwise is to ask if Mortars are able to be fluffed in at all. You'll find your artillery work better if you have a bit more variety.

    -AFG//

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    Ok thanks AFG, and im assuming by DoW you mean Dogs of War?

    Yeah I was worried about cries of cheese, but a real tercio force isn't really an artillery force. Its strength lies in its massive blocks of infantry backed up with Handgunners. Obviously Empire infantry aren't going to repel Chaos Warriors without flank charges/knightly backup but hopefully I'll be able to whittle them down to manageble numbers with firepower. I might add a mortar but I'm disastrously unlucky with scatter dice >.<

    They didn't use mortars often in teh 1400-1600 period but there are a few examples.

    Will this list work without any Knightly counter charge units? For flank assault and killing enemy siege/wizards etc are pistoliers up to the job?

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    458 (x8)

    The Pistoliers, if used well, will act as a right pain for your opponent, especially a WoC opponent. That, unfortunately is almost all you have going for you against the misguided northerners. You might claw something back with halberd-armed detachments, but don't expect your Handgun-armed detachments to do much (unless you plan to sit back and wait- which is a bad idea).

    That said, if you can race to a decent enough position and wait for a turn or two, you may be able to reduce their R&F units enough that you can beat them down through CRes.

    -AFG//

  6. #5
    Kut Maar Krachtig Zema's Avatar
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    Great idea! I have an early 17th century dutch army form Marienburg, i will be watching your progress!
    Got a "good" rumour from a GW staffer? Forget about it, LO'ers know more than any random GW shop staffer.
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    Hey Zemaphore just browsed your pics of the Dutch Marienburg Force, looks brilliant mate.

    I'm not sure what country to base my colour scheme on, but I do know that I'm going to use Holy Roman Tactics from the age of the general Tilly. so maybe I'll use the colour scheme of the Landsknecht Company. (Red, Grey, Brown and yellow.)

    Basically in the centre of the field three blocks of spearmen with handgunners hold the line. These represent the massive blocks of pikemen and aquesbiers. On the flanks there will be swordsmen with halbedier detachments to keep flanking forces away and direct the opponent into the tantalizing spearmen.

    Right out on the edges I will have pistolier units to represent the Reiters of the Imperial Army, men in plate on horseback with wheellock pistols. In history they were rather useless so hopefully in my games they'll do something.

    I'm just wondering whether its possible to not have any magic whatsoever in a Fantasy Battle-or should I skimp on the realism and take one or two scroll caddies just in case?

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    Kut Maar Krachtig Zema's Avatar
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    539 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffstalker View Post
    Hey Zemaphore just browsed your pics of the Dutch Marienburg Force, looks brilliant mate.

    I'm not sure what country to base my colour scheme on, but I do know that I'm going to use Holy Roman Tactics from the age of the general Tilly. so maybe I'll use the colour scheme of the Landsknecht Company. (Red, Grey, Brown and yellow.)
    Sounds very cool!


    Quote Originally Posted by fluffstalker View Post
    I'm just wondering whether its possible to not have any magic whatsoever in a Fantasy Battle-or should I skimp on the realism and take one or two scroll caddies just in case?
    I had the same problem. I compromized by taking a wizard and modelling him on the scientists of the era: galliea and such. I took heavens lore and i just said "warhammer is not the real world, but if galliea lived, what kinda wizard would he have been?". So my 2 wizards can be Heavens or Fire mages.
    Got a "good" rumour from a GW staffer? Forget about it, LO'ers know more than any random GW shop staffer.
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    Ah yeah I guess I could go with "scientists". But even then it wouldnt make sense because the Holy Roman Empire Armies were made up of devout Catholics, and ini those days if they caught hide or hair of a scientist like Galileo they probably would burn him right then and there.

    However a Master Engineer could make sense. Put him with the hellblaster to minimize craziness. And for dispel scrolls I could have a warrior priest leading a swordsman regiment. He wont do much but carry scrolls and look good- and historically not too inaccurate either.

    Ok I just realized that there are no real "pikemen" units other than Dogs of War. THe look of the Republican Guard and Legion just dont fit the build for me as a Holy Roman Empire Army. Regular State troopers look better. The spearmen rules dont seem to reflect a pikeman's statistics so I came up with the below experimental rules that I can use in house games.


    WS 3 BS- S 3 T 3 W 1 I-3 A-1 Ld-7 Sv-5+

    Special Rules: The 14 foot pike enables infantry to extend their striking power over a considerable distance. A unit armed with pikes may fight with three ranks if charged and two ranks otherwise.

    Units of Pikemen can either charge or move into an enemy unit. If charging normal rules, apply, double distance and double attacks but the unit may only attack with their front rank. This represnts them stowing their pikes (somehwere) and attacking with swords. However, if a Pikemen unit wishes to keep their double rank bonus while sitll moving into the opponent they may only move at regular speed.

    The pike is a very unwieldy weapon in close quarters, and as such if a unit is charged in the flank or rear the unit recieves a -1 to their WS for that combat phase to represent the confusion.

    Ok so what do you think? I was thinking of adding extra advantages against cavalry but the ability to fight with three ranks seems powerful enough. Is it too broken?

  10. #9
    Kut Maar Krachtig Zema's Avatar
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    539 (x8)

    I can't really comment on your pikes but your idea sounds fun! The empire models that are currently available should fit your chosen history like a glove.

    Keep us posted, i'm especially looking forward to your models.
    Got a "good" rumour from a GW staffer? Forget about it, LO'ers know more than any random GW shop staffer.
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