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I am making a theme based list for 2k point and plans to include one of the two great heros, and I have difficulty to choose which.
In my plan Karl Franz will be on warhorse with THE HAMMER, they will both riding with a squard of 9 Inner Circle knights with steel banner.
While Karl Franz is more expensive and dont have the double combat rez bonus, he got 4+ ward, magic resistance 3 and THE HAMMER.
Please help me to decide!!
Edit: Garr, was trying to make a poll, didnt work some how.
You go to a second window when posting a poll.
To the question, personally, I like both. If you know you'll be facing a nasty wizard or two, the Emperor really shines, as he allows at least two units to become MR2+ (one unit of state troops can be given a magic banner with him), but Kurt Helborg is a combat monster. Against Undead, he's probably the best character you can use from the Empire book (he's effectively killing that extra zombie with each hit). I've seen games where he's won combat on his own, and all his unit were there to do was win the combat by even more.
It all depends on the gaming styles in your area. If your opponents like killy characters that excel in challenges, Karl Franz may be the better option, for example.
For theme and effectiveness I'd go with Kurt Helborg. He is the epitome of the hammer in our army book apparently, so use him as such.
Karl Franz is more of a support character for the simple fact his high leadership has an 18" radius. Even with THE Warhammer, his combat capacity is only sub par. He still needs to hit, which due to his only average WS will only hit half the time. Karl Franz is not a combat monster. His Dragon is.
In addition, Kurt makes your knights immune to psychology. He can charge terror and fear causing foes without any problems. Karl might have LD 10, but that pales in the face of that ability.
If you're afraid of challenges, throw your unit champion at it if you're sure Kurt won't be able to kill it. All Kurt needs to do is generate as much combat resolution to overcome that problem, which is entirely doable.
Ld 10 is a better buff for the rest of your army when facing Undead. If you can get both KF and Ludwig Schwarzhelm, then you have two very good characters with more resilience than Kurt. The Reiksmarshal is very good when fighting an opponent, but KF can kill much harder targets than KH could consider fighting with his relatively low strength
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I prefare kurt with his better w.s and his ability to cause double combat res.
I saw him get charged in the flank by a unit of 4 orge bulls with full command, he took no wounds ,hit 4 times, the orge's failed thier break test and were run down
Wood elf player- 2000 points worth, Autumn theme
Empire player - 3000 points worth, Green and white
Eldar player - 1500 points worth, Blue and white
Well, any unit join by Karl Franz is automatically Immune to psychology, so the only different is only Ld 10 or Ld 9 with stubborn. Point wise they are 70ish point different, but Karl Franz got ward save and Magic resistance so his squard is more durable.
Kurt, as you lots suggest, cheaper better stat with double combat rez is really awsome, but more fragile against magic and Lord grade character and all their crazy weapons.
KURT OFc.... wins alone 7ws noi saves 4 attacks double CR! ffs...the karl only ld is good nothing else bad is that both are fragile ;S i prefer kurt cause in head of knights makes teh UNIT! i won ud with 20skeletons+lordvampire +17 combat resolution never did that bfr! +8 only by kurt!
I've also had trouble making a poll, I can't find the insert poll button.
Personally, Karl Franz doesn't need 9 innercircle knights in his retinue. The back 4 knights are a waste of points. Take 5 or 6 and use the points for regular, flanking knights or for more troops, crossbowmen, etc.
I think the decision comes down to the rest of your army build and your usual opponents. Both are kind of silly and pricey (they are special characters after all) in my opinion, but have their advantages. The problem you may have is getting Ghal Maraz into combat as you're not the fastest cavalry in the game and that weapon really shines in challenges or against large target, multi-wound monsters.
I wouldn't play either in 2000. Esp. not in friendly games.
Play 3k points and use both.
And what Gsk.Gosu0r said is that Kurt has 4 Attacks at Weapon Skill 7 that ignore armor and each wound caused counts double for Combat Resolution.
He's definately the stronger of the two for their points.
About the second half of Gsk.Gosu0r's post, all I can say is to face something that's an actual threat (Grave Guard for example). Skeletons drop in droves, especially from characters. Of course you won combat by 17.