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    dwarfs vs the Empire

    Me and my friend play against eachother each saturday he plays dwarfs and i play empire.
    He's quite experienced and well... i just started. Everywhere on the forum i read that you should use your knights to move up the flanks take out the artillery and win back those points. But what do you do when he just stays on the starting position, and when you want to take out his artillery he just charges you ?

    Might be a stupid question, but i have to learn somehow :-p


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    First, you are empire and can field just as many shooty units as him, if not more, so YOU could sit back and wait for him to advance..

    when you want to take out his artillery he just charges you ?
    that really should not happen. he charges way less than you, so try to outmove him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch Thomo View Post
    Hell, I even just copied the name from And - so it's all his fault! :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by And View Post
    First, you are empire and can field just as many shooty units as him, if not more, so YOU could sit back and wait for him to advance..
    I swapped the hellblasters and mortars and handgunners for crossbows and cannons , giving me the extra range to be able to hit him (the table is pretty long).

    Also put in two units of 6x knights of the inner circle (musician only) and 6x Outriders that ought to outmanoeuvre him.

    and i'll put in a solid center that can hold up for quite a while maybe greatswords or flaggelants.

    thnx for the replie

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    Try a 10-stong Unit of IC Knights with full command, a Warrior Priest and the Demonslayer Banner. Even head-on, it should go through the dwarves like a hot curry.
    The careful application of terror is a form of communication in itself - Zutta Law #4.

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    Yeah, its a bit of a odd situation when dwarfs and empire face off, they both rely on static CR so heavily and have similar tatics.

    The main differnce you need to keep in mind is that while both rely on static CR dawrfs and the masters of it, while empire is the jack of all trades and master of none. Empire units will not be able to go one on one and win, but we do have the opion for faster troops, use of magic, shooting that is on par and our greatest strength: detachemnts.

    Match his level of artillery, and focus on a particular units to open holes in his line, detachemnts wont work against well placed units so the game is really decided on if you can break through his line or not. The more spread out they become, the easier it gets.

    Against dwarf i would actually suggest not taking uber units, you'll need knights or you'll have a hard time hitting hard enough and positioning, but some super unit of IC knights with priest screams "Free points!" for dwarfs. I would say the more rank and file units you have to to surround, flank open gaps and deny tasty artillery options the better. Dont be scare to send big blocks of cheap infantry into his main units, like iron breakers and such, your guys wont win but it allows everything else a few turns to slam on the more squishy stuff, then come back to them once you're done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rolly View Post
    Yeah, its a bit of a odd situation when dwarfs and empire face off, they both rely on static CR so heavily and have similar tatics.

    The main differnce you need to keep in mind is that while both rely on static CR dawrfs and the masters of it, while empire is the jack of all trades and master of none. Empire units will not be able to go one on one and win, but we do have the opion for faster troops, use of magic, shooting that is on par and our greatest strength: detachemnts.

    Match his level of artillery, and focus on a particular units to open holes in his line, detachemnts wont work against well placed units so the game is really decided on if you can break through his line or not. The more spread out they become, the easier it gets.

    Against dwarf i would actually suggest not taking uber units, you'll need knights or you'll have a hard time hitting hard enough and positioning, but some super unit of IC knights with priest screams "Free points!" for dwarfs. I would say the more rank and file units you have to to surround, flank open gaps and deny tasty artillery options the better. Dont be scare to send big blocks of cheap infantry into his main units, like iron breakers and such, your guys wont win but it allows everything else a few turns to slam on the more squishy stuff, then come back to them once you're done.


    Thnx for the help i tried everything but it just keeps failing :-p

    Cant charge artillery cause his units bash me to heck when i get there, and his artillery when i'm in half range.

    Can't outrank him thanks to overkill

    Shooting goes a little, but thanks to the high toughness of the buggers they just won't die, and i dont believe he has misfires.

    He dispelles most of the magic :-p

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    Maybe he is cheating? Watch how he rolls the rice, Ive noticed some people like to do a simple drop, so the dice doesnt bounce around and have a chance to change, and if they do that they will generally drop it onto something that is softer than say a table top or counter, like cardboard or maybe a flocked table top.

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    I honestly wouldn't bother with magic, let him waste points on anti-magic things thinking your gonna bring some and instead focus on more guns and more artillery. I'm just looking into empire so i'm not an expert but I do have a dwarf army and while his handgunners outclass yours in just about every way, they pay more points for it. Also with their stubby legs if you go full gunline I don't think he'll ever be able to reach you, I would go all crossbowmen and artillery and archers and just out shoot him.
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    Have you tried mixing gunline units with detachments of swordmen/halberdiers? I would think having a solid core of guys and a detachment to go with them would help brek units and win CR over those pesky dwarfs. Or, I would try having a big gunline and a unit of flaggies or greatswords and shooting the heck out of them until they come after you, and using the flaggies/greatsword to tie them up even more and prevent them from getting to you. Basically, do whatever you can to disrupt your friends gameplan and see what happens.

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    It's big.. it's steamy.. it's....!
    I played against empire today with my dwarfs which went well for the most part except for that little iron behemoth called a steamtank. 20 warriors with thane ( with D6 wounds weapon ) in his flank eventually fled with about 8 guys remaining. True, my longbeards with str 6 thane smashed it to bits the next turn, but still...

    So try using a steamtank. I knew he was going to use it so put some extra stuff to get it down in my list * cough 4 bolt throwers * but I'm pretty sure he won't have that as you make your list here with us. Use a bunch of big but cheap ( cheaper than dwarf blocks anyway ) blocks of swordsmen and halberdiers and put the steamtank somewhere in the middle of them. Slam into a unit of dwarfs, warriors, longbeards, ironbreakers, that doesn't really matter. But for the love of Sigmar, don't throw it into a unit of hammerers ( str 6, you will lose a load of wounds and hammerers usually have a geared up hero ) or slayers ( thank to their special rule slayer skill, the strenght of slayers will be increased to the toughness of their enemies. So attack a unit of slayers and you will receive possibly a dozen str 6 attacks. ) When you grind through the warriors or longbeards you will have free reign behind his line and thats usually the deathblow for dwarfs, having some big thing behind their line. You can either rampage into their artillery or turn and brutally trap the remaining blocks between your own warriors. This should work. Flank the steamtank with your own blocks, destroy a weaker or smaller dwarfunit and that should do it.

    no big swords!
    Better not take greatswords, he started with a block of 20 and I killed 6 in turn 1 :p and when they finally came to charge there were only 4 left.

    countergunline
    You could try to go for the countergunline but that's pretty lame to be honest and doesn't make for a fun game, because it takes 6 turns for dwarfs to cross the board and essentially it's just * shoot shoot "now it's your turn" - move move "my turn again" shoot shoot - move move - shoot shoot etc. * and the dwarfs also have long ranged artillery themselves. A countergunline against dwarfs is a boring game and if you roll bad enough you might not even kill enough of them. Dwarfs can take a 5+ wardsave in 6" banner against shooting and magic missiles.

    outmanouvered
    The death of a dwarf army is being outmanouvered and/or surrounded. Try zipping past his line or through gaps to get to his artillery hill with fast cav or heavy cav if you see an oppertunity. When you get a unit to rampage a dwarf artillery hill you can usually grab loads of victory points there. The way to rolll up an entire dwarven army is to dfeat his flank and then just keep flank charging from one block to the next. Other armies have units strong enough to defeat dwarven blocks from the front with ridiculous amounts of attacks combined with high strenght, but empire doesn't rewally have anything like that. You can use your detachment rule to throw a supporting charge of halberdiers from the flank after charging in with the mother unit.

    templates
    If your opponent tends to fill up his hill, castle up and/or put his units close together, then templates are your best bet. Carnage from the skies! If you put your template warmachines right across the battlefield from the dwarfs then you can easily calculate how far away they are ( measure how long the table is before the battle, it's good to get insight in your battlefield. The boards in the games-workshop here are 47" for example ) and there should be enough stuff to hit.


    I hope this helps It's always best to get insight in how to defeat an army by hearing from someone who actually plays them.
    Last edited by The bearded one; July 17th, 2009 at 23:36.

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