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Is it considered inappropriate to create a army to deal with a specific foe outside of a campaign?
For example, currently, I'm only playing against a Skaven player as we try to get interest in the game from other players. I've been told its not cool to take the Helm of the Ratslayer because it would be "cheesy" to take items specifically for going against your opponent unless its a campaign.
I should point out, this was not said by the person I'm playing against as he said it would be silly NOT to take it since I know I'm always playing against him and to intentionally "gimp" myself by not taking it.
I'm just curious as to the general consensus amongst the Warhammer community, or at least its representatives on LO *grin*
Maybe if you ask your opponent before hand and allow him the same option to modify his list, then you can simply work it around some fluf like your army is a skaven tunnle clearing army from nuln or even marineburg.
Maybe work it into the game so if the character dies he is worth an extra amount of points, and have your opponent have a character with the same downfall if killed.
But yes, generally it is seen as cheese to base you list on an opponents force.
Personaly the item itself is not worth its salt and the points would be better spent else where. only the one character with it causes fear, so your not going to get the outnumbered by a fear causer you may have hoped for, and then you rely on the skaven failing a leadership test. even on a captain on pegasus to run down weapon teams, a passed Ld test and stand and shoot reaction could wipe him out.
there are really two ways to play this game. One is two people have general lists, and sit down to play a game. The other is people agree to play eachother beforehand, and gear their lists to beat their opponent's army. both ways are fair.
the only thing thats "cheesy" is if one person list gears and the other doesn't.
--Famous last words of Asmodean
Hmm interesting I dont really think anything is cheese, if its in the book its fair game I think. A person should tailor their list for all comers and not be worried about fighting anybody. I tailored my Empire, Imperial Guard, and Tau to combat my own list. It took a while, I dont know how well they will do, as I am painting them at the moment. But hopefully it does good, I also wanted my armies to look cool. Win/lose im happy either way.
Generally, if people tailor a list against me, it suggests they're looking for an advantage over me. Makes victory that much more satisfying .
Barring that, I'd say go ahead, especially if he's doing it (sounds like he is, if your other threads are anything to go by). Whilst it is considered unethical, a lot of opponents should be fine with it.
if you geared an entire list around beating just 1 type of army, I'd say its a little cheap really, but if your just adding a few things which work well against them, thats fine, in reality your army would add units able to deal with that particular foe, the entire army wouldn't be changed, just a few bits, and the helm of the skavenslayer is designed to be used against Skaven, so if your opponent is moaning, tell him to sod off, when else are you gonna use it
And no, i do not care what others think, all people i play with just take what they want to take. Let's be adults about this, c'mon.
It's also a vile way to poison the game: let's say i'm playing my friend with my empire, he doesn't like my hellvolleygun and starts calling it cheesy, he gets some others to support him and all of a sudden i'm not supposed to use it anymore? Does this sounds reasonable to you?
Now, this isn't a personal attack on you, obviously, but i think you need to stand up against this crap.
Last edited by Zema; April 24th, 2009 at 12:06.
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It is entirely up to each player to determine in advance what "tweaks" to the play list. Once you guys decide on "Standard GW rules, 2000 points, no special characters, no magic items over 50 pts, etc, etc), once those rules are set in place, you have no other obligation save to make sure your army list falls under these rules.
If this guy has an army list specifically tailored to take on what he probably considers to be a generic Empire Army, or more specficially, has an army list that is tailored to take on DRSID Empire Army, you not only have a right, but an obligation, to change things up that might throw off his entire plan.
In short, you should move towards that Shooty/WarMachine type army list to deal with what he is doing.
Now, if you play in a tourney format, where you DON'T know what you are going up against, that forces EVERYONE to build an army list that can conceivably take on any army you go up against, with less of an emphasis on what I MIGHT go up against and instead is built to go up against ANY list, no matter how tweaked or themed.
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Also remember that it goes both ways. Yes, your Captain leading a huge block of infantry and he is wearing the Helm of the Skaven Slayer will cause fear and if he realizes this, then if this guy does not have an assassin or two in his regiments to take out such a character, then that is on him not on you. I often kept Assassins in my list specifically to deal with key opposition anyway.
Take the HELM OF THE SKAVEN SLAYER.
i have to agree with zemaphore here
although i personally think there are some army lists which are pretty overpowered (with VC i believe there is one with 11PD or something?) which i personally wouldnt use in a friendly game, because it isnt fun if the other person doesnt stand a chance
although i suppose that helm isnt like that, so fair game to use it
MEAT IS MURDER, And murder tastes pretty good! :D
--Famous last words of Asmodean