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    Clarifying the status of Carroburg

    I am fielding a middenland force that is based around Carroburg. My understanding, from Heirs of Sigmar (WHFRP), is that Carroburg is home to the Elector Count's heir apparent, Wolfram Todbringer and that the EC of Middenland has a home there. In addition, one of Todbringer's titles is "Prince of Carroburg." This implies that Carroburg is loyal to Middenland.

    However, reading about the Carroburg greatswords descriptions in Empire army book, it implies that Carroburg is a Reikland city.

    I realize the city is chartered and "free," but would I be able to field a Middenland force with Carroburg greatswords?

    Can I even have a middenland force based out of Carroburg if I want it to be led by Wolfram and the Duke Leopold von Bildhofen?

    If this is not viable, then I suppose they will be based out of Delberz.

    Last edited by drsid; September 15th, 2009 at 06:09.

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    Kut Maar Krachtig Zema's Avatar
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    Apart from the fluff, any combination is freely allowed, both in gameplay terms and fluff: Empire armies often consist of a alliance from several states.

    As to the status. What i gather from my Imperial Heraldry book is that they are a true Reikland army, that's what the book says. But the Roleplaying sources do indicate a Middenland origin. Critical Hit - The Empire .

    But as the Carroburg Greatswords are mentioned to be from Reikland in both the armybook and the recent heraldry book, i'd make em Reiklanders.

    But, like i said, that's hardly important as there's no reason why you could not field the red carroburgers alongside some Blue Middenlanders.

    Even sworn enemies like Stirland and Talabecland have been known to march alongside each other.
    Last edited by Zema; September 15th, 2009 at 15:33.
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    so, it would seem that the fantasy fluff and the wargaming fluff are in consistent with each other. nice.

    My main goal is to have a middenland army led by Wolfram and Duke Bildhofen and the presence or absence of the Carroburg greatswords is not really that important. I am trying to figure out where I would base the regiment.

    If Wolfram and the Duke are housed at Carrroburg then I would base the regiment there and simply use the Carroburg Greatswords to emphasize that location. If If Wolfram and the Duke are not at Carroburg, and Middenheim is the actual seat of the middenland province, then I would probably base them out of Delberz as its located close enough to middenheim without being a middenheim army.

    I suppose an alternate reading is too look at the dates. It is currently 2252 and Carroburg appears to be in close relationship to Middenland and, as a chartered city, I would imagine its loyalties have switched back and forth. Perhaps EC Todbringer sent his heir and seated the Duke there it make sure Carroburg remains loyal to middenland, to the extent that a chartered city can be loyal to a particular EC and province.

    Hmmm... Now, I'm brainstorming. Perhaps, the Carroburg greatswords have been relegated to "second class" political status regardless of their prestigious heritage, with Wolfram having brought his own GS ... or, as a sign of respect to the great swords and to foster goodwill and a sense of "bygones will be bygones" Wolfram embraces the Carroburg GS.

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    Kut Maar Krachtig Zema's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drsid View Post
    so, it would seem that the fantasy fluff and the wargaming fluff are in consistent with each other. nice.

    My main goal is to have a middenland army led by Wolfram and Duke Bildhofen and the presence or absence of the Carroburg greatswords is not really that important. I am trying to figure out where I would base the regiment.

    If Wolfram and the Duke are housed at Carrroburg then I would base the regiment there and simply use the Carroburg Greatswords to emphasize that location. If If Wolfram and the Duke are not at Carroburg, and Middenheim is the actual seat of the middenland province, then I would probably base them out of Delberz as its located close enough to middenheim without being a middenheim army.

    I suppose an alternate reading is too look at the dates. It is currently 2252 and Carroburg appears to be in close relationship to Middenland and, as a chartered city, I would imagine its loyalties have switched back and forth. Perhaps EC Todbringer sent his heir and seated the Duke there it make sure Carroburg remains loyal to middenland, to the extent that a chartered city can be loyal to a particular EC and province.

    Hmmm... Now, I'm brainstorming. Perhaps, the Carroburg greatswords have been relegated to "second class" political status regardless of their prestigious heritage, with Wolfram having brought his own GS ... or, as a sign of respect to the great swords and to foster goodwill and a sense of "bygones will be bygones" Wolfram embraces the Carroburg GS.
    I fear your reading way to much into this, the old roleplay books are just that, old, GW continuously updates its fluff and changes it. These days the Carroburg are Reiklanders, they have always been Reiklanders ("we have always been at war with Eurasia").

    Besides, as far as current canon/fluff goes, on anything, the Roleplay stuff is dodgy as a source at best, completely uncompatible usually.
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    that's pretty disappointing to hear, esp. given that the RPG book appears to have been recently published by FFG. From what I am gathering, I am probably safer completely staying away from any major locations and players in the setting.

    So, Delberz it is!

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    As someone with a carroburg army, this is a topic I've researched extensively.

    The Carroburg greatswords are not from Carroburg.

    They are a reikland unit that were dispatched to fight the army of middenland at carroburg.

    They had white reikland uniforms until the battle, then they changed it to red.

    Just one regiment, doesn't mean that carroburg has red uniforms or anything, Irritatingly, the new empire heraldry book doe not list carrroburg's colours, just reikland and the carroburg greatswords,

    Carroburg is neither middenland or reikland

    I realize the city is chartered and "free," but would I be able to field a Middenland force with Carroburg greatswords?
    Technically yes, but the 2 would hate each other.. remember that the red uniforms literally represent the blood of middenlanders.

    The background is a mess, they're always retconning things, the entire province of sudenland was completely removed from the background in 6th edition, it's now part of wissenland.

    I'm doing an army to represent Duke Bildhofen's private army, which he maintains through excessive taxation of his lands. As for a colour scheme, I've gone for bone and wine.. bone for reikland and wine to represent the duke's patronship. Banners have the carroburg portcullis on them, it looks cool.

    I don't see my army as Carroburg's main military.. there may also be a guard force to protect the city, along with other expeditionary forces in either middenland or reikland colours that are dispatched wherever an elector count needs them.

    The official background is, at best, a guide.. an advantage of coming up with your own background is that GW can't mess it up when they release a new edition.
    Last edited by scarletsquig; September 20th, 2009 at 04:44.

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